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EDITOR:
I would like to comment on Jim Riordan’s letter in your Dec. 26 issue.
Mr. Riordan, while I agree with you on several points, I must say that I think your reference to “the screams of unknowing liberals ranting over and over that ‘all guns should be confiscated or destroyed’” is absolutely absurd. It’s simply not true. I have never heard anyone suggest that all guns be outlawed. Your statement is a prime example of the hysterical paronoid tantrums we get from NRA members and followers. No one wants to take away all your guns or repeal the 2nd Amendment.
I entirely agree with you that the killer’s mother was responsible in a very large part for the massacre in Conneticut. I agree, too, that video games have become so outrageously bloody violent that they must be deemed harmful and made illegal. I say this as an opponent of censorship. Becasue, as we evolve, so must our laws. Our media is a far cry from the quill pen and so is the assault weapon from the musket loader. It is unreasonable to ban violent video games and not ban assault weapons.
Just because mental health is a complex problem due to privacy, economic, and other issues, we cannot ignore it. We must do all we can to prevent more mass killings. A ban on assault weapons will not take away anyone’s security, freedom, hobbies, or 2nd Amendment rights.
SYLVIA MEDLEY
El Dorado
“Since the Second Amendment did not create or grant any right concerning firearms, the right enumerated in the Amendment has to be an existing right separate from the Amendment. Thus, repealing the Second Amendment would not eliminate any right because the right enumerated in the Amendment was not created by the Amendment. The right to keep and bear arms exists independent of the Constitution or the Second Amendment.” …..Hey Rich, if DB doesn’t buy your SKS, I would. I don’t have anything in 7.62X39, but I’m not opposed to adding a caliber to my collection ;^)
Chuck, I’ll bring that up to the dead relative who left it to me. Jim, I don’t know what the journal is, but, yes I would like to get rid of it, notes in the original cardboard box say he fired two clips of US 7.62 mm at a range and purchased it new in 1987 from a small gun shop of Hywy #26, I don’t know if that makes a difference. Steers, you certainly make a lot of assumptions. You assume I want to order these additional magazines, you assume I’m not a tax payer in other states including Oregon; you assume that there not available because I also live in California, you assume I haven’t read Cal law on the SKS, you assume the dead person I inherited the SKS is still alive. The point of my post was; it’s easy and inexpensive to up grade most semi-auto weapons. …. Please, go back to sleep, I don’t want to embarrass you any more. And Steers, please don’t offer me anymore advice and the broken clock comment was, well, cute but more in line with comments of a ten year old.
Oh, and Sylvia, you still didn’t answer my question. And saying “The weapons that I want banned are the ones designed to kill the most people in the least amount of time” doesn’t tell us anything specific. As usual. You can kill 168 people in the blink of an eye with fertilizer and diesel. Do we outlaw those? An 86 year old man can kill 10 people in a farmer’s market in 2 seconds with a Buick. Do we ban elderly drivers or just Buicks? If I can cycle 4 rounds in 5 seconds in my deer rifle, do you want to take it away from me? “We don’t want ALL your guns…” The saying “…is a good start” is a phrase that concerns me. They always start with a little and end up taking a lot. I mean, really, who here trusts the word of a politician?
Rich,
I didn’t assume anything. What I did was take you for your word. The only assumption I made was that you are a resident here in our county. The rest came from your statements. I highly recommend to Rich that you do not transport your illegal weapon into our county because that constitutes a felony. Your ignorance of detachable or attachable clip capacity is not an excuse. And to Sylvia Medley and Jim Riordan. You can now rest easy because Rich now states that he won’t bring his SKS with a detachable magazine here into our fair county. Oregonian residents are much better equipped to deal with Rich up there because anyone can own one in Oregon. Ah “sigh” another disaster averted.
Rich, another point of assumption. Just because you say something? It doesn’t make it true. Like because you say you pay taxes in Oregon then you are a citizen of that state? Nope. Am I to assume that you have an Oregon and a California Drivers license? That would be illegal. Again
Sylvia, Furniture’s augments are fabricated and he knows it. I would guess he has considerable funds invested in his collection and no matter what anyone says, no matter how much sense it makes, know matter that it’s for the common good, greed and paranoia have propelled him to the dark side for the duration. Your description is clear enough. “The weapons that I want banned are the ones designed to kill the most people in the least amount of time. These are not weapons made for sport or for protecting your home against an intruder. They are not antiques. Their only purpose is to kill people efficiently. To those paranoids who believe that our government is the enemy and so they must have military style weapons for defense, I say: it’s time to grow up and surrender your dark fantasies for the common good.”
Rich, are you the “Richard” who blew a fuse here a couple of weeks ago? Recently we’ve seen Richard, Rich and Rick, but you all sound like a bunch of D***s. I will not surrender my weapon “for the common good”. Because while surrendering them might make some of you feel all warm and fuzzy, it will accomplish nothing more than that, will it? It’s not my job to make you feel good. Just like it’s not your job to dictate the term of my Liberty. Cheers.
Rich, are you the “Richard” who blew a fuse here a couple of weeks ago? Recently we’ve seen Richard, Rich and Rick, but you all sound like a bunch of D1cks. I will not surrender my weapon “for the common good”. Because while surrendering them might make some of you feel all warm and fuzzy, it will accomplish nothing more than that, will it? It’s not my job to make you feel good. Just like it’s not your job to dictate the term of my Liberty. Cheers.
Paddy, what did you think of my idea to tax financial transactions? And, how about the trillion dollar coin to avoid the debt ceiling. Heck, let’s mint 16 of them and wipe out the national debt.
Heck James, let’s mint 100 of them and reduce everybody’s taxes to Zero, colonize the moon, and buy Mexico.
Actually, I like Stephen Colbert’s take in the matter James. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-08/stephen-colbert-takes-trillion-dollar-coin
I find it interesting that Rich or Richard, a person who wants the second amendment repealed for the common good. Is the one who admits to owning an illegal firearm and has researched how to obtain larger capacity magazines. So like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, he must believe that the right to bear arms is only for the Progressive populous. I think that until our Progressive friends give up their defense of the mentally insane having the same rights to possess fire arms as the rest of America for the common good of our society, then our lives and our children’s lives will remain at peril forever.
Paddy, I agree w/you ~ Rich is “Richard”, AKA “Action Hero” and “Sprinkles”. You can tell by her content.
Furniture, Smith and Steers, I bet when President Barack Obama was reelected, your world was turned upside down, know doubt you felt like someone kicked you in the stomach and the butt at the same time. But instead of taking stock as to way ya-all lost the election your paranoia kicked in and you’ve decided to fight because you think the future of our country is going to hinge not upon the Republican Party but upon well armed tea party patriots like yourself. I bet you feel the majority of republicans continue to allow themselves to be kicked around from within the U.S. by the Obama administration and from without by the United Nations’ rogue usurpation of Americans’ rights. In the past six months alone, we all know, “the Obama administration has teamed up with the U.N. to enforce Internet intrusions, clamp down on gun rights, further regulate the airline industry, utilize billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars to expand U.N. global warming control and expand global abortion. And who can forget the proliferation of Agenda 21 and growth of Interpol to enforce its new international law.” I’ve got to remind you guys, you lost the election, you lost your tea party and your credibility, that’s not going to change. Additionally, your going to lose the gun control issue also, get used to it, you’re out of step with the rest of our county. And I can only imagine how confused you must be with the short version of my name, after all it’s quite a stretch, for any future post I’ll stick with the long version.
Steers, you exaggerate and embellish almost everything you say. I never said I want the second amendment repealed, the SKS is not illegal and we both know the comment about the 20 round magazine was for research to make my point how easy it is to convert a semi-auto weapons firing capacity. Your comments about the mentally insane are just ramblings. I do believe the Second Amendment grants each American an individual right to own a gun, which remains a matter of some debate, it does not follow logically, legally or constitutionally that this right is absolute. No right granted by the Constitution is totally exempt from limitations. Additionally, If your “freedom” threatens children’s safety, it’s reasonable to restrict it.
Richard, why do you feel my comments regarding the lack of a social safety net and the epidemic of mental illness as ramblings? Is it striking a cord too close to home for you? Relax because yes it is true that the Democrat Socialist completely run this state and our country. You have won. So it does appear that the inmates are now running the asylum.
Okay Rich/Richard/Rick, I’ll tell you how I feel about the election. At first it was deep disappointment-because a blatant socialist who has failed to do anything of significance (other than Obamacare, which was wildly unpopular amongst the majority of Americans-ask Bart Stupak), in the midst of BenghaziGate and the Fast & Furious scandal, was reelected. And he was reelected because he promised the most goodies to the most people, and that he would make someone else pay for them. Liberalism is the most gutless choice a person can make because it fails to make hard decisions, promises ease comfort, and puts off the expense of it all indefinitely. We are going broke. Our nation, like Greece, Spain, Italy, France….has overpromised and will soon underdeliver. And Liberalism fails to address the long term need for Fiscal Responsibility…….But after the disappointment wore off, what I began to feel about Obama’s reelection, and still feel now is; an uneasy relief. Yup, relief. The reason for this is that when this ship sinks, (and it will- “it is a mathematical certainty”), the blame for the failure will be placed precisely where it belongs; Socialism. Capitalism is not at the root of our fiscal and economic woes (or social woes, for that matter), Socialism is. This is also basic math. Now the republicans have been complicit in much of this too, which is why many of us who considered ourselves republicans in the past have given up in disgust and consider ourselves Libertarians. It’s not so much that the we left the GOP, but rather it left us (to semi-quote Reagan). This thing is going to burn down and when it does, Obama will be right up front yelling “pour more gas on it boys! We need stimulus!” Good luck with that, Barry.
Okay, Rich/Richard/Rick, with regard to the 2nd Amendment, I make you this promise; we will NOT lose on this issue. Period. You and many other socialist lefties VASTLY underestimate the commitment and resolve of pro-2nd Amendment citizens. You don’t know what you’re asking, but keep pushing and you’ll find out. Now, here’s a challenge for you; if there ever is a confiscation (I know, I know, you and your heroes-Cuomo, Feinstein, Bloomberg assure us that will never happen while history clearly demonstrates it is the ultimate goal of ANY gun legislation); will YOU personally volunteer to be on the confiscation crew? Will you PERSonally be willing to go house to house and and point a gun at the owner while demanding his? And if he refuses? Will you shoot him? I realize it’s a rhetorical question and I may be being officious in asking it, but it’s good food for thought and I think in the end you and your kind would rather have someone else do the dirty work while you stay home.
” . . . will YOU personally volunteer to be on the confiscation crew? Will you PERSonally be willing to go house to house and and point a gun at the owner while demanding his? And if he refuses? Will you shoot him? I realize it’s a rhetorical question . . . “ ********** No, not rhetorical questions at all. (Though some may think so.)
“Can America Survive If Americans No Longer Agree On A Core Set Of Shared Values?” - The truth is that we are being divided in dozens of different ways today. The following are just a few of the ways we are currently being divided…
• Republican vs. Democrat
• Conservative vs. Liberal
• Rich vs. Poor
• Black vs. White (or insert any other two races or ethnic groups)
• North vs. South
• Urban vs. Rural
• Anti-Gun vs. Pro-Gun
• Male vs. Female
• Young vs. Old
• Traditional vs. “Modern”
• Religious vs. Secular – Of course we should never compromise what we believe just for the sake of “unity”. That is foolishness. But you can disagree with someone without hating them.
In America today, people will find a reason to hate someone else at the drop of a hat. ********** http://tinyurl.com/bgwjbz8
Evelyn, I am recovering from a bout of vertigo so when your speaking in italic it makes me kinda sick to my stomach. Please speak regular until I’m fully recovered.
Obviously, this thread has been taken over by the gun/2nd Amendment arguments. As I don’t know the answer to that complex matter, I am going to mellow out and just think about the debt limit — 14th Amendment, the Trillion dollar coin, or a responsible Congress?? Mr. Boehner and Mr. O’Connell, let’s get it on.
Good morning Furniture, of all you speak is hypothetical. One thing that I can say with confidence, should a major event occur, which is highly unlikely, Sheriff John under authority of the federal government will be leading the local search.
James, It’s been a while (70+ comments so far), but I think this thread actually started off as a 2nd Amendment discussion. Rich/Richard/Rick, If you truly want to ban all guns, and I’m determined not to allow it, then this isn’t hypothetical at all. The question you were asked was would you enlist for the Confiscation Crew? I said this question was rhetorical and Evelyn pointed out that really isn’t rhetorical at all. we’re both right, however I think that it is in the sense that no one (like yourself) will have the guts to answer it honestly (like you didn’t). Say you’ll volunteer and you’re saying “yes, I’ll go out and kill one man to save another”, the ultimate exercise in futility (not to mention hypocrisy). If you say no you’re a coward. The perfect example of being between a rock and hard place, but you put yourself there…
DB Smith: Sorry to have contributed to vertigo seizure. Italics were intended to indicate that the entire passage was an attribution; meaning, lifted from linked article. I’ll try to minimize your vertigo. Good health!
On reflection forget about the debt ceiling problem. There’s nothing we can do about it anyway.
Its about time that something was done to curtail the use and sale of assult weapons. FOR THOSE OF YOU YOU WONT GIVE YOUR GUNS UP UNLESS ITS OVER YOUR DEAD BODY, THAT’S FINE WITH ME. Summary of 2013 Feinstein Assault Weapons Legislation Bans the sale, transfer, importation, or manufacturing of: 120 specifically-named firearms Certain other semiautomatic rifles, handguns, shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and have one military characteristic Semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds Strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and various state bans by: Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test Eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test Banning firearms with “thumbhole stocks” and “bullet buttons” to address attempts to “work around” prior bans Bans large-capacity ammunition feeding devices capable of accepting more than 10 rounds. Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by: Grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or sporting purposes and Exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include: o Background check of owner and any transferee; o Type and serial number of the firearm; o Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint; o Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and o Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration
Speaking of rifles and such . . . HERE.
And
HERE is the source of About Time’s above contribution, from feinstein.senate.gov/
It’s About Time, stepping over your dead body after you try to take mine is fine by me also.
They gave us more than a blueprint.
They gave us all the Legal Authority we will ever need.All we need now is to do our Duty for Ourselves and our Children and Grandchildren. Honor those fighting Now , those that fought and Died before and those that will when we succeed down the road.
Are we Worthy or are we Cowards? The Executive Branch is Illegal and Criminal and Treasonous. The Congress is cowardly, treasonous and Piggish. The Imperial Senate is also Treasonous, Pimpish and FAT. The Judiciary is Insane and Useless Party Animals not worthy of the Word JUDGE.WHO remains with Honor willing to risk this Fragile Shell for Honor and Duty, GOD and the republic?I do all I need is 299 more and I swear I will March to DC armed. My only Question is which Caliber 6.8 SPC or 7.62. GOD Bless and My LORD helps those who help themselves. After DC then the CRUSADES.
Kevin, that was total sarcasm, right?
7.62
IT’S ABOUT MORE THAN GUNS
HERE
“Will Obama Use An Executive Order To Enact Gun Control?” HERE ********** Among gun control proponents — Rich? — would any of you support this being enacted by Executive Order?
Again, the extremists go extreme. There has never been a mention of taking our 2nd Amendment right away. And “your kind” always call Democrats Socialists. Paranoid people are the most dangerous and unbalanced. They see, feel and hear what isn’t really there. No one is coming after your guns. Calm down before you hurt yourself. Some Tea Party, Anarchist want trouble, want a chance to show off their manhood by the size of their muzzles. Please find another way. Richard really bugs ya huh!? Now there’s a man!
Good luck on finding any Patty
Ignorance can be lethal.
cllea, Richard doesn’t bother me in the least, I just think he’s a bit unstable. And if he’s a “real man” (cllea, are you another AKA for Richard? No one other than him speaks so highly of him) why hasn’t he answered my question?: Will you volunteer to be on the Confiscation Crew? Do any of the gun-phobes have the guts to answer it? Volunteer and you’re saying “yes, I’ll go out and kill one man to save another”, the ultimate exercise in futility (not to mention hypocrisy). If you say no you’re a coward. OBTW, Washington and Jefferson were the “extremists” of their day. The label doesn’t bother me at all.
Mr. Furniture, no I am not Richard. No I would not volunteer to be on any confiscation crew. Now, Mr. Furniture, hypothetical situations aren’t real! Ask anyone. What manhood means to you, well…….. And my intention is not to bother you. I do not make it a habit to beat my head against a vacant wall. Have a peaceful evening.
In my years the issue of types of individuals deemed threatening to the United States has changed. Our history classifies threats as foreign spies, saboteurs, anarchists, foreign terrorists, and communist. Of concern over the last forty years have been the home grown terrorists and the ability of law enforcement to have and maintain the ability to identify those individuals who pose threats. Because these threatening individuals have represented such a small fraction of the population, the senior agencies have had to struggle with how to balance national security with the civil liberties of those who are not threats. This tension was particularly evident during my time of service after the Vietnam War and continued though the Cold War, the war on terror, the country’s heightened focus on security often led to actions that attempted to find all possible threats but, in doing so, jeopardized civil liberties. But I feel all that is changing now, with advanced communications, available of weapons and political unrest, maybe its time we as a nation take another look at how we track our home grown terrorists as much as it goes against my core feelings, renewed new guidelines and detailed accounting of all who process weapons, particularly those who process more than one which isn’t currently cataloged, maybe a good start. Individuals like Furniture, in my experience are of the home grown wannabe type that when confronted most often pee their pants fall to their knees crying and begin apologues. I’m not worried about the aged patriots, and I can’t help but admire some of them. It’s the somewhat organized militants, violent crime offends and opportunist and local, state and federal law enforcements abilities to deal with them that concerns me.
I was getting tired of library carpet…and came to play with the big guys…gun control ? Okay I have read the comments and find them refreshing. Debating guns and vids. After so many children being killed… I now believe that people should be more prepared…I do not own a gun–nor have I fired one. In the teachers program down in Los Angeles–I was trained to protect students to the best of my ability-knowing that may mean putting myself between a student and harms way. At all costs–we are trained to protect…with that in mind–I am rethinking what people have said about school employees being able to carry guns.
…but back I go…Fran
Reading some of your comments, I have a question. Is there a weapon, small like a gun–that can stop someone in their tracks from a good distance? (I have heard with tasers–one has to be fairly close)I know that I have read that armored back packs are being brought–at an all time high…and that the word “ban” bothers me…in our American history–lololol..whenever we “ban” something–it becomes the most wanted item of the year–and the most expensive.
wow…Ill have to spy on you guys more often–this is way more intellectual than my carpet problem
What’s a “home-grown terrorist” Richard? A guy who works 40 a week, takes good care of his family, pays his taxes, goes to church and breaks no laws except for the occasional 70 in a 65? Certainly not. Maybe if he’s on an internet forum pointing out the cowardice and hypocrisy of someone who preaches about infringing upon the Liberties of others, but won’t answer a simple but tough question like “would you personally confiscate?” Is that what you call a “home-grown terrorist”? News Flash: You’re more of a danger to me than I am to you, big guy. I just want to be left alone and you wont let me.
Fran, my logic tells me that unless you are armed with the same capabilities as the terrorist, you would not stand a chance with a handgun. I own, and have learned how to handle my gun very proficiently, but I know that against the weapons being used on our streets I would not be able to do much. Please continue to think carefully before you make such a decision to take a handgun into a classroom. Richard, yes, I have been reading posts on this site for quite a while. My experiences in this world have not been of a military nature, and even I get a chill reading what these anarchists spout. Yes, most would pee in the britches if they see fully armed personnel coming up their driveway. I appreciate your good sense, humanity and service to this great country. Thank you.
Fran, I dont have the answer but guns in the class room doesnt sound like a good idea to me. About the only thing more terrifying than a lone gunman firing into a classroom or a crowded movie theater is a half a dozen more gunmen leaping around firing their pistols at the killer, which is to say really at each other and every bystander. It’s a law enforcement nightmare.
thanks for the input–again I dont own a gun…Im not against them…I just chose not to use them. But it is the topic across the US…should teachers be allowed to carry weapons. And many of my passive friends are still on the fence–but with one foot over on the “yes” side. I know the anger and fear will die down…but it will remain there in peoples minds. And banning games and assault weapons–not sure…being a city kid–I know that anything can be bought on the street…and as I said–once its banned–price goes up–people will still get them. (some times people get hurt over the purchase of illegal items) On the lighter side my grandfather said in his small town–when alcohol was banned–they also took vanilla extract away from the women (real extract has alcohol)men kept the extract in safes at the store–he would have to go in–pay a higher price–he didnt get a whole bottle–just enough for the recipe–no money (women were not allowed to buy it)…and then take it back to face my grandmother– who would just yell and yell…he did say that she was a darn good cook…he just hated going to get the extract –prohibition did not work. Banning guns–I dont think it will work. If guns are banned–wouldnt the “bad guy” have more than the “good guys.” I say we spend more time finding a resolution for the mental illnesses at there. Please understand–I am not a gun person–many in my family have been (armed service and hunters)–but me–nope. But with mental illness behind a gun–its not the gun that killed–it s the person. Much respect–thanks for the comments–its interesting.
Francesca, If faced with a crazy with a gun, the only adequate response is another gun. It is an inescapable conclusion. Tazers and bear spray don’t have enough range or accuracy to stop someone with a gun. I have bear spray myself since I live in their immediate vicinity, but they don’t shoot back. Lots of voices out there are saying it would be terrible to put guns in classrooms yet we have armed guards guarding our politicians, and many VIPs and wealthy folks have armed bodyguards. Are we being told that movie stars and politicians and more important than out kids? The Obama girls go to a school with armed guards present; are they more important than my kids? Not to me. The “gun free zone” thing is yet another reason I home school. School are not safe enough for me to send me my little ones off to. Since instituting the armed air marshal program and allowing pilots to carry guns in the cockpit, we have had precisely zero incidents. Zero. The comment above about “About the only thing more terrifying than a lone gunman firing into a classroom or a crowded movie theater is a half a dozen more gunmen leaping around firing their pistols at the killer” is a bunch of hooey and statistics disprove him hands down. We will never get rid of all guns and while the politicians dawdle, there will most certainly be another school shooting that would have been prevented by lifting the “gun free zone” rule. Good luck to you.
Ken Steers, in response to your 1/9 comment: Adam Lanza’s mother was responsible because she gave her mentally ill son access to guns. I’ve previously stated that mental health is a complex issue that has to be addressed. Who doesn’t know that? It’s a big part of the problem, but not all of it.
Paddy O’furniture, in response to your 1/9 comment: for crying out loud, I could not be more specific. I described guns. The topic of discussion is guns. Not bombs (which are illegal), not bad driving (illegal), not poisoning water systems (illegal). Try staying on the subject. And your slippery slope argument doesn’t wash. It never does.