Wednesday, April 16, 2014
PLACERVILLE, CALIFORNIA
99 CENTS

New animal shelter

EDITOR:

I am a shelter supporter and firmly believe that our county needs and deserves a large, modern facility that will be comfortable and pleasant for animals as well as people. After giving this latest proposal a lot of thought though, I cannot support this location. I feel sorry for the shelter coalition as they are relegated to making the most out of whatever bones the county throws, and I challenge anyone who reads the project timeline to feel anything other than frustration and compassion for these hardworking and dedicated volunteers. But because the new shelter is intended to house all animals, large and small, this site on Capitol Avenue will surely prove inadequate as soon as we break ground.

There have been several outlandishly disagreeable statements made in order to convince the public of the county’s due diligence in this matter, but for the sake of brevity, here’s one to chew on: In the 1,805 square miles that El Dorado County encompasses, this 2 acres is the only viable option.

Dude. Seriously?

BECKY LONG
Placerville

Letters to the Editor

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Discussion | 59 comments

  • JimBoJuly 18, 2013 - 6:51 pm

    The County would like you to believe that it searched the County and reviewed 100 potential sites that it whittled down to only one site that was the most suitable for the Animal Shelter in the back of Park West. If you believe this, you are easily fooled. The County actually tried to rent the same building for Health and Human Services Mental Health Department 1 year and 4 months ago! Seems like the real deciding factor on this location was the building owner the County could beat up the most on price and nothing else. County has a huge conflict of interest in preparing its own environmental doc too!

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 21, 2013 - 4:26 pm

    JimBo, from Wednesday's Letters, "That’s no rose" ~~~ http://www.mtdemocrat.com/letters/thats-no-rose/ ~~~ based on data posted I added this - Huge Vast Majority, "Holy Cow" provides this data, "27 staying an average of 3-1/2 days." - Multiplying 27 livestock by 3.5 days = 94.5 livestock days. Put another way, if we divide "livestock days" by 365.25 (days per year) we get 0.2587268993839836 - just slightly over 1/4 head of livestock per day - As I said, not exactly a fly infested feedlot. If your neighbor has a horse then your neighbor is more likely to offend your senses than the animal shelter. Move on. Get a life NIMBYs. BECKY LONG There is adequate room here for large animals - on average one large animal every 4 days. The dogs and cats and sundry small animals are inside. Why do you feel that this site is so inadequate?

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 21, 2013 - 4:27 pm

    boldoff

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  • GumpJuly 22, 2013 - 8:12 am

    Rabid dog Phil - Get your head out of your butt and maybe you'll have something intelligent to contribute to this dialog.

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 22, 2013 - 8:26 am

    I agree with you, Gump. If I want 1/4 of a large animal I'll go to Swengel's or Scalise Meats. Besides, if the animal shelter only has on average 1/4 large animal per day somebody will probably beat me to the prime beef. It would be my luck to show up and get the front 1/4 off an ass.

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  • Holy CowJuly 22, 2013 - 2:25 pm

    Here's the data for 2012. Birds:39, Cats:937, Dogs:1,150, Livestock:27 (3.33 days), Other:22 (1.11 days). I have no knowledge what "other" represents but it could possibly be goats, sheep, pigs, mules or donkeys. Please don't disparage nimbys. Who among you would volunteer to have an animal shelter 50' from your barbeque or 100' from your bedroom window?

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 22, 2013 - 4:50 pm

    Holy Cow, thank you for your data update which marginally brings down the animal shelter livestock density from just over 1/4 to just under 1/4 head of livestock per day at the shelter in 2012. Sheep goats and pigs are, in fact, livestock. The "others" probably represent lemurs, monkeys, civet cats, coats, aardvarks, deranged liberals kangaroos, armadillos, dingo's, ring-tailed cats . . . . . . As far as being willing to have a shelter next to me - YES! When my wife and I are on the road and we pass by an occasional feedlot we roll DOWN the windows . . . Ahhh . . . . nostalgic aroma yesteryear's home on the farm.~~~~~ THERE WILL BE ZERO STENCH, FLIES AND NOISE. If your neighbors own a horse, then pester your neighbors. The animal shelter is FINE.

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 22, 2013 - 4:52 pm

    sorry - - - "coats" should be "coatis"

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  • hmmmmmmmmmmJuly 22, 2013 - 6:16 pm

    deranged liberal kangeroos in the feed lots veerkamp sez

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 22, 2013 - 6:43 pm

    hmmmmmmmmmm, I'll bet you 10 to 1 (ten to one) that the new shelter will not have any Tasmanian Devils.

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  • hmmmmmmmmmmJuly 22, 2013 - 7:00 pm

    veerkamp I see you spell my name correctly. that is good 'cause now that i feel you take me serious we can have a serious conversation

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  • GumpJuly 22, 2013 - 7:22 pm

    Rabid dog Phil is actually MARRIED??? Does his better half know he's hanging around the shelter looking for a piece of 'ass', posting nasty 'WTF' comments and agitating neighbors? Stupid is as stupid does...

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 22, 2013 - 7:28 pm

    hmmmmmmmmmm, serious conversation on this thread ended with my data analysis showing that the animal shelter's 2012 livestock population to be less than 1/4 head of livestock per day. Any objection to such a population level cannot be serious. ~~~ Let the foolish commentary begin . . . uh . . . excuse me . . . let the foolish commentary continue.

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  • Kirk MacKenzieJuly 23, 2013 - 12:06 pm

    Phil -- As you know, an average of 1/4 head of livestock per day is statistical nonsense. The data shows that these animals arrive and stay in groups. What is the average number of livestock present when any (more than zero) are present?

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 12:12 pm

    Kirk, your answer is up thread.

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 12:21 pm

    How hard it must be to predictably miss the point, Kirk! The data provided says that 3/4 of the time(three days out of four) there are zero animals at the shelter. If that is too complex for you to fathom, Kirk, then try this. One day out of four there is one whole animal - on average.

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  • Kirk MacKenzieJuly 23, 2013 - 12:59 pm

    Phil -- what is difficult is dealing with people like you that are dishonest. Nowhere "upthread" is my question answered. And nowhere does it say that one animal was present one day out of four. The pattern I would expect is multiple livestock to be present at the same time. Which is why I asked the question. If, say, 10 cows are cooped up on 2 acres for more than a couple of days, they will attract flies and they will produce odors.

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 1:36 pm

    Kirk, honestly, really, truly, as a matter of fact read - Holy Cow July 22, 2013 - 2:25 pm up thread. "Livestock:27 (3.33 days)" I've done the math - your turn, Kirk, honestly

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  • Kirk MacKenzieJuly 23, 2013 - 1:44 pm

    Phil -- I guess I gave you too much credit for your understand of data and statistics. Does that data say 9 animals were present for 3.33 days on 3 different occasions? Or 3 animals present for 3.33 days on 9 different occasions? Or one animal present for an average of 3.33 days on 27 different occasions?

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 1:50 pm

    Kirk - math hints up-thread @ Phil Veerkamp July 21, 2013 - 4:26 pm Please show your work or no credit for you, Kirkster. Honestly!

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 2:08 pm

    Have you found this up-thread, Kirk? "27 staying an average of 3-1/2 days." Honestly. Answer honestly, Kirk. . . please?

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  • Kirk MacKenzieJuly 23, 2013 - 2:19 pm

    Phil -- yes, I've seen your nonsensical analysis that results in 1/4 head of livestock per day. It doesn't answer my question: How many animals were present when any were present. I expect they arrive in groups. One group of 27 animals staying for 3.3 days? On animal staying for 3.3 days on 27 different occasions? There is not enough data present to get the answer. I understand you are comfortable fabricating answers with inadequate data...that explains much about the mess EDH, EID, and EDC are in due to your dishonesty.

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 2:42 pm

    THE DATA WAS FOR . . . 2012 . . . TOTAL . . . TOTAL . . . TOTAL . . . OF 27 LIVESTOCK IN 2012 . . . WITH AN AVERAGE STAY OF 3.33 DAYS. If you think that animal control is sufficiently staffed to pull off multiple head round-ups then I have a bridge to sell you. They're doing well to catch dogs and cats . . . sheesh!

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 2:47 pm

    . . . and if you don't like the data provided by "Holy Cow" then your argument is not with me. I am HONESTLY reporting reported data.

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 2:51 pm

    1-800-328-7448

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  • Kirk MacKenzieJuly 23, 2013 - 3:02 pm

    Phil -- Finally, you state your *assumption* that no more than one animal was brought in at a time. My argument with you is not over the data, it is with your conclusion(s) and your (unstated) assumption. The issue is whether this is an appropriate location for the animal shelter. If multiple livestock animals are present at one time, my answer is: maybe not.

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  • James E.July 23, 2013 - 3:07 pm

    Get along little doggies, RAWHIDE!

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 3:23 pm

    Kirk, my one and ONLY ASSUMPTION was that "Holy Cow's" data was correct. From that I calculated a simple average. For all I know all 27 arrived on the same day, stayed 3.33 days and left the premises livestock free for the remaining 337.92 days. If you have conflicting data . . .

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 5:11 pm

    Kirk MacKenzie July 23, 2013 - 12:06 pm asserts " The data shows that these animals arrive and stay in groups." ~~~ Present supporting data or confess your lie. Further retract your assertions of deception and dishonesty on my part. . . . Kirk-pot calling kettle . . .

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  • Kirk MacKenzieJuly 23, 2013 - 6:02 pm

    Phil -- Board of Supervisors meeting recording, part 35 (thanks Melody) testimony states that animals do arrive in groups. Natural disasters (eg fire) has resulted in up to 16 livestock animals needing shelter at once, with 8(?) being taken in by their network of volunteers and the other 8 housed at the shelter. Find another kettle, Mr Pot. And thanks for finally acknowledging the point you have been arguing against all afternoon.

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 6:30 pm

    Holey Cow - Melody Lane - so . . . 27 head and 3.33 days is not accurate 2012 data? Your source, Mr. Cow? Mr. Kirk says that Melody says you're wrong. Kirk says that once upon a time a group of 8 arrived all at once. Wow! I'm not sure how those eight affect Mr. Cow's 27 & 3.33. Mr. Kirk, I think that my original calculation showing an average of one head per four days stands. . . .average . . . .average . . . average . . . even with Melody's 8 all at once. WOW, Kirk! Statistical clusters are so confuzzing.

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  • Kirk MacKenzieJuly 23, 2013 - 6:45 pm

    Phil -- there is nothing inconsistent with Mr Cow's data and the 8 horses arriving at once. And it wasn't Melody's data...both Mr Cow & I got our information from the same testimony. You continue to give us evidence for your lack of feel -- much less understanding -- of real time data and statistical analysis. And thanks for admitting that you are a dishonest pot.

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  • MelodyJuly 23, 2013 - 6:53 pm

    Kirk: Gump made a valid point about Phil acting like a rabid dog. Rabid skunk sounds more like it. Don't feed the critter and avoid him like any other infected vermin!!!

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  • Kirk MacKenzieJuly 23, 2013 - 7:03 pm

    Melody -- sound advice...I often give it myself. But sticking with your rabid skunk analogy, someone needs to put the vermin down or it will continue to be a threat to the community. And I doubt animal control will handle this one.

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  • MelodyJuly 23, 2013 - 7:07 pm

    Phil--FYI rabies affects the brain as evident in your remarks. I'm NOT Holy Cow on this post. I have no problem using my real name or posting factual information. Perhaps your nonsensical comments would be more appropriately directed in front of the BOS audience/video for the public record and all the world to see???

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 7:08 pm

    Kirk, thank you for confirming and agreeing with Mr. Cow's data. In 2012 there were according to Mr. Cow and Mr. Kirk a total of 27 head of livestock at the animal shelter with an average stay of 3.33 days. ~~~~ (27 X 3.33)/365.25 = 0.2461601642710472 average. Kirk, can you make it come out to be some other average? Using your deep insights into probability and statistics what are the odds of showing up at the shelter on any particular day and finding one whole head of livestock. Please show your complex analysis. My math background extends into differential and integral calculus. I can probably understand your scratching.

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  • MelodyJuly 23, 2013 - 7:10 pm

    Kudos Kirk!!! You can't reason with a mad-man.

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 7:14 pm

    Thank you, Melody. I take it that you confirm that in 2012 there were a total of 27 head of livestock staying an average of 3.33 days? ~~~ If so then QED on 0.2461601642710472 average.

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  • Kirk MacKenzieJuly 23, 2013 - 7:24 pm

    Phil -- yes, the average per day presence of livestock is a nonsensical ~.25. To be precise, the testimony was 28 animals, but that's mouse nuts. There is no way to determine a realistic probability of a livestock animal being present at the shelter without understanding their arrival rate. Please, keep proving how little you *understand* about these topics...and let us know when the stupid starts to hurt. One interesting aspect to the data is the rate of growth: 2934 (total animals) in 2011, to 3124 in 2012. Two data points does not make a trend, but it does give a hint towards the future.

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 7:45 pm

    (3124 - 2934)/2934 = 0.064758/100 = 06.4758% increase from 2011 to 2012. Using those two (inadequate) data points calculate the number of years it would take to double the average from 1/4 to 1/2. . . . just for fun, Kirk . . . even a rough estimate of doubling time. Feel free to round up to 6.5% for the rate

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  • statisticianJuly 23, 2013 - 7:51 pm

    really people does the rate of growth matter? Phil wants to live near a shelter so splitting decimal points is ..................... splitting decimal points

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  • Kirk MacKenzieJuly 23, 2013 - 7:53 pm

    Phil -- That nonsensical 1/4 average is for livestock. Those data points were for total animals, not livestock. There is no data for 2011 livestock, so we have no basis to begin calculating the answer you are looking for. Does it hurt yet?

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 8:15 pm

    OK. You are unwilling to supply the missing assumption that livestock rate of increase will not track with the total animal capture rate. Good point. Dogs and cats will probably grow faster than livestock. But IF (if) livestock captures increased by 6.5% the time to double from 1/4 to 1/2 would be about 11 years . . . roughly. And in 22 years there would be one whole head of livestock and the nonsense can end in 22 years!!!

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  • Kirk MacKenzieJuly 23, 2013 - 8:23 pm

    Well done, Google Boy. (Google "compound growth calculator").

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  • MelodyJuly 23, 2013 - 8:26 pm

    Point of the matter is the shelter location and Negative Declaration were rigged for a predetermined outcome. Watch the BOS video. Planning/Dev. Services regularly submits FALSE data and negative declarations/EIRs that need to be challenged & exposed PRIOR to BOS voting. I highly doubt the Negative Declaration was even examined. It's just another example of lobbyists enabling out of control government bureaucracy and lack of accountability.

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  • FranJuly 23, 2013 - 8:31 pm

    If you have a small or micro farm and are interestested in how the updated General Plan and Zoning Ordinance (LUPPU) will affect you, then attend this meeting. That includes all you hobby farms, FFA, 4-H, and chicken folks too. CEDAC Regulatory Reform Ag Workgroup Meeting Agenda Wednesday, July 24, 2013 10:00 am to 12:00 pm EDC Agriculture Building – 311 Fair Lane, Placerville 10:00 a.m. 1. Welcome & introductions 10:05 a.m. 2. Interests & concerns 10:30 a.m. 3. General Plan policies 11:00 a.m. 4. Zoning codes 11:45 a.m. 4. Next steps 12:00 p.m. 5. Adjourn

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  • MelodyJuly 23, 2013 - 8:36 pm

    Kirk - CAUTION: Don't feed the rabid skunk--highly contagious and hazardous to your health!! Animal Control unlikely to respond so suggest steer clear & call professional exterminators pronto.

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 8:38 pm

    Quantitative analysis, anybody? See Melody Lane. (not)

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 8:57 pm

    Melody forfeits - argumentum ad hominem ~~~~~~ Kirk forfeits - argumentum ad hominem ~~~~ I WIN!!!! YESSSS! Melody, Kirk go clean up the manure from the animal shelter livestock every fourth day. Don't fight over whose garden wins. Share the $hit.

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  • James E.July 23, 2013 - 8:59 pm

    Phil, it's good to win.

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 9:03 pm

    . . . in extra innings yet!!!

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  • GumpJuly 23, 2013 - 9:08 pm

    At last there's help for dudes like Phil: http://www.mtdemocrat.com/prospecting/bipolar-insights-what-am-i-to-do/

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 9:23 pm

    Thanks Gump. Need a ride?

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 23, 2013 - 9:46 pm

    BTW, Kirk, I prefer Excel over Google. Cut and paste this into an Excel cell. ~~~ =LOG(2)/LOG(1+6.5/100) ~~~~ Try it. You'll like it! and just for grins try =LOG(4)/LOG(1+6.5/100)

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  • Kirk MacKenzieJuly 24, 2013 - 8:51 am

    Melody -- Please provide an example of Planning/Dev Services supplying false data, especially if it relates to this shelter site. I'm working on something and would appreciate an example.

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  • Foaming at the MouthJuly 24, 2013 - 1:47 pm

    Complaining about false data is easy. Documenting false data is hard.

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  • JimBoJuly 25, 2013 - 5:32 am

    Actually, documenting is easy. I have the proposed County lease for the same building prepared a year and a half ago for the Mental Health Department. The public was told and sold a lie, as it was told the County Facilities Dept. searched through 100 sites in its acquisition and due diligence strategy and this location and facility was deemed the best location for the animal shelter. Well, apparently it is the best location for every County Department that Facilities wants to throw in there. This wasn't about the best location, it was about which building the County could purchase at the cheapest price. All environmental docs were then "crafted" after the fact.

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  • Phil VeerkampJuly 25, 2013 - 6:02 am

    JimBo, you've covered process, but where's your DATA? i.e., animal capture/population data?

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  • StanSmithJuly 25, 2013 - 10:11 am

    I'm sure if the County wanted to put the Homeless shelter there tomorrow it would craft the data to fit. Seems to be the ideal place for everything in County's mind.

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