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EDITOR:
You know the left is out of ideas when they are reduced to Mr. Garon ranting about arms sales and Mr. Longhofer writing about when life begins at a time when the country is more interested in when jobs begin. Surprisingly enough in Mr. Garon’s rant there actually is something worth talking about. And that is education. In the world currently I think we are somewhere around 27th and 30th in science and math. This bodes ill for our future. The left spending us into national bankruptcy is the immediate problem but to survive in the future we must get educaton back on track. We need to spend more time teaching students the hard subjects needed to compete in the world and less timg teaching them how to feel good about themselves. President Obama awhile back asked Steve Jobs when the jobs he sent to China were coming back. He replied “they’re not!” The problem was he couldn’t find enough workers here capable of the manufacture of his high tech product. We need something like vouchers so that our schools will compete for excellence just as we must nationally compete for excelence if we are to prosper in the 21st century. The days of living on our past glory are over.
GEORGE ALGER
Placerville
The Mountain Democrat does not necessarily condone the comments here, nor does it review every post. Read our full policy
MorrisSeptember 04, 2012 - 5:02 pm
Mr. Alger makes excellent points regarding the sorry state of our educational system. Nice to see someone on the conservative side actually echo points I'm often attacked for making on the left side of that issue. We are not competitive in the sciences. And we have been living off of our past glory days by spending intellectual capital we no longer have. The proverbial fat chick she has sung. Speaking of bankruptcy, however, I do seem to recall that when President Clinton left office, we as a nation were running quite the 'surplus' of budgets and were far closer to balanced than ever. In fact, we as a nation where enjoying quite the possibility of actually approaching a balanced budget for the first time in decades. And then, just as he did in Texas after receiving a healthy economy from Gov. Richards, Bush screwed our collective pooches. Funny how the billions of dollars committed to the mess in Iraq just don't get mentioned when slamming President Obama; who was, literally, handed a mess. You don't turn something like that around in 3 years. Iceberg dead ahead compliments of BushCo.
Phil VeerkampSeptember 04, 2012 - 6:13 pm
Morris, you credit a letter writer who’s forward looking theme points to future challenges while you gaze in the rear view mirror assign blame to Bush. - PHIL V. COJECTURE: THE financial collapse would have happened with or without Afghanistan, Iraq, Bush, and Cheney. The housing bubble was a function of neither war nor Republican and Democrat malfeasance. Exponential functions ultimately “blow up”. The compounding of money, real estate values, commodities prices, demands on government services ultimately produce unsustainable rates of increase which ultimately burst. Future historians looking back at these times may in fact write about the remarkable “controlled deflation” that, while uncomfortable, was not catastrophic.
JohnSeptember 04, 2012 - 7:49 pm
We sanctimonize about the education system but refuse to look at why many other nations succeed where we fail: Korea, Singapore, Finland and a host of others approach education in a totally different manner. Finland, especially, is considered No. 1 in the world even though they have a huge Muslim minority. Their secret? Many, but at the top of the list is the fact that teachers are the third-highest regarded profession after doctors and judges. And teachers are very well paid, so there is almost no turnover, and they have an input into each individual school's curriculum. But, with people like Alger and Veerkamp who spend their time attacking teachers, we're going backward, not forward.
Phil VeerkampSeptember 04, 2012 - 8:08 pm
Veerkamp attacking teachers? That's a surprise to me for sure!!! Veerkamps have devoted ninety four years to classroom teaching. Multiple Veerkamps have devoted decades to Board service...PLEEEEZZZE?! Tell me you're making it up!!!
Ken SteersSeptember 07, 2012 - 9:09 am
I grow weary of correcting fallacies espoused by our Progressive brothers. For instance this Morris fella speaking about a Clinton budget surplus that never was. Read NY Post story http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/bubba_the_housing_bubble_8cUhYsqNdXVlWjflbbjiUO Phoney numbers created by Fannie and Freddy's housing bubble. Regarding education, we are number 1 in the world on spending. Since we are the highest spenders and 27th in scores we should hold those in charge accountable. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. It seems that both the Left and Right are in agreement that our education system is at failure. Rare indeed. So how do you fix it.
MorrisSeptember 07, 2012 - 6:14 pm
Phil, I can't say I disagree with you. It's a tough subject. Sooner or later the bubble would have burst. That is all we can say as 'certain'. However, my opinion is that it the pain may well have been much less had we not been bleeding billions every day in the Iraqi war. Personally, when I've experienced a cash shortage, it's always been a softer landing if expenses were low compared to the slapped in the face with a wet squirrel feeling of limited cash and (seemingly) unlimited bills to pay. And I realize the 'surplus' was just that: a quotational 'surplus'; that's why it was expressed in quotes. It is humorous tho to read about the spendthrift Liberals all things considered. Because in the 8 years following Clinton, I do believe our government grew much larger and our expenditures exponentially larger while under management by BushCo. Just my opinion.
MorrisSeptember 07, 2012 - 6:19 pm
@Ken: Well stated counterpoint. Appreciated.
Ken SteersSeptember 07, 2012 - 7:47 pm
Morris, thank you. I must say that I spent much time scratching my head regarding the Republican spending. But can you name a single liberal who was against it? In fact there wasn't and now we doubled down. We are in trouble and I'm not sure we can correct it.
MorrisSeptember 07, 2012 - 10:32 pm
Lol Ken....likely I would be hard pressed to find one. And for the record I remain a fiscal conservative and left of center on social issues. So we may well have more to agree upon than disagree. Personally, I believe that our priorities as a nation are all screwed up and have been for quite some time; predating each administration of republican and democrat governance. I see no reason why anyone in this country should go hungry and consider it a national shame that some have died for lack of access fo basic health care. As well, I feel that any child who wishes a higher education should have one; be it welding school or medical school. Seems a simple equation to me but perhaps its not so simple. I don't know. But I think that if our strengths were leveraged to our maximum potential (education, jobs, health care) then in one or two generations we would leap frog well ahead of those countries that are currently kicking our asses. Because we have a secret weapon: Democracy and Freedom. I rather suspect that if we were to fully engage ourselves to these priorities that conservative and liberal would frankly run out of things to argue about. Well, maybe that's a bit of a stretch but today we agree on something Ken: Our country is in trouble. Sometimes I wonder if our enemies are using our own internal discourse against us...why invade when they can just wait us out as we argue over deck chairs on the Titanic? Just a thought..
Martin SchumannSeptember 08, 2012 - 7:45 am
You fix the education system by getting government out of it. Let the States and local government handle it, get rid of tenure and hire the best. Start vocational schools for the students that don’t want to spend the time and the money for higher education, there are many students that would excel in the right educational environment. Start uniformed dress codes so that they don’t have to compete with one and another which would get rid of a lot of in school gangs and bullies. Bring back corporal punishment, it works, you don’t have to beat the kids to death a smack on the backside definitely gets there attention. Our educational system worked prior union and government takeover. Don’t get me wrong unions are good as long as due what they were designed for, safety, job environment, health and welfare. Government is bad when they set the curriculum and tell our schools what and what not they can teach. California has many Latinos a second language should be mandatory; English should be required from all attending students; students that can’t speak English should be put in special education classes. As stated we spend more money on education than any nation and we are 27th, which is insane.
Thomas GibneySeptember 08, 2012 - 7:51 am
Martin, you sound so ..Draconian hehe, I still have memories of Sister Pedro in 2nd grade waching my knuckles with a ruler for some transgression or another. Didn;t harm me any , I am not shattered nor do I wish to kill 'penguins' (Catholic Nuns) You are correct in pointing out the obvious, we have become too soft on our kids, God forbid we challenge them...or the overpaid School administrators of which there seem to be an excess of...
CatherineSeptember 08, 2012 - 11:09 am
Kids who succeed in school typically have good parents, and vouchers will have no affect on the heart of the educational problems we face. Talk to some teachers to see where education can be improved before you assume the public education model is the culprit. Also, Steve Jobs could easily have found workers in America with the technical skills to build Apple products (and wouldn't it have been interesting if he had), but he preferred to use cheap labor in countries with no labor or environmental protections.
Ken SteersSeptember 08, 2012 - 6:07 pm
Catherine, some of my best friends are teachers. I've been on a few school boards. I talk to them almost every day. Many public school teachers send their own children to private school. It's hard to follow your logic, are you saying that poor performing students have bad parents? What is your base reasoning regarding vouchers not working? Apple's currently the most successful company in the world. The majority of it's goods are sold out side the US. I'm pretty sure they don't need your advice as how to run it. Morris economically as well as militarily no country compares to the good old USA. We are still 25% of the worlds GDP with only 4% of the population. No one is kicking our butts in those areas. As far as health care? We are the best in the world. Education? We spend more than any other country. We should have better results. Or do we? I am and always will be a fiscal conservative. Socially, I'm a native born Californian. I don't care who you are married to. Simply don't tell or teach me who I should be married to either. Regarding your worry of our enemies. Krushchev did say that the Soviet Union would bury us. He later said that our working class will bury us. But alas we are not a class system. And the Soviet Union is no more. It might be comforting to know that many of us have sworn an oath to defend the constitution of the United States from it's enemies both foreign and domestic. I'm willing to be that you Morris have done that at least one time in your life.
MorrisSeptember 08, 2012 - 7:42 pm
Ken, I'm flattered. While I am indeed free from The Great Ex of All Cold and Soused Passive-Aggressive Damaged Souls, it could never work. The whole mixed marriage (GEOACSPADS is Republican) thing would ruin what we have. It would confuse the kids. Scare the dog. Havoc would ensue. Havoc I say. (breath Ken...it's a joke. Happens after a few shots of Pellegrino. I was too drunk to remember. Doh!)
MorrisSeptember 08, 2012 - 8:15 pm
Now the serious rebuttal: Here's what keeps me up at night Ken: For a good 100 years or so, a guy who didn't go on to college or even want to go could pretty much secure his ticket into the middle-class by being That Backbone Guy. He showed up everyday at the factory, stamped out his widgets and then went home to play ball with his kids. He made a decent wage, owned his home and - most importantly - bought a lot of crap over his 67.3 years on the planet that was made by other widget wranglers. That dude was/is the glue. Those textile jobs are gone now so we can pay 4 bucks less for a pair of jeans that are trucked in by a stressed out guy making 300 a week by living in his truck and sold to us by LaDontcara the Wally checker making minimum wage + WIC + EIC. Big things small things all things once made by Backbone Guy are now made by Backwater Man. His wife - who worked in Customer Service at The Bank That Really Knew You made a decent honorable wage too. But now she too has been replaced by My Name is Really Susan of Saigon and working for a bank now owned by a non-US entity. When they retired, Backbone Bob and Service Sally bought a Buick, a house in ALT and drove us all nuts for the next 10 years by driving 4.9 on 49 ALL THE WAY TO AUBURN to buy more....widgets! It seems to me that we are bleeding Bobs and Sue's while simultaneously not making any more of them. The middle class jobs seem to be going away. For many years now. We're running out of Bob's and that dude made this country.
MorrisSeptember 08, 2012 - 8:48 pm
One last comment..I promise. I had a medical emergency in Canada. 4 hours in ER (30 minutes with Dr. 3.5 hours cared for by nurse) 4 days in hospital. X-Rays, Good Canadian Happy Pills, Blood work, meals etc. (sadly no Kokanee's tho) It was pretty serious. Evac'd to US hospital for 7 days of laying in bed. The hard stuff was done by the Canadians. Bill for ER doc: 100.00. Bill for ER + 4 day stay: 4200.00. Bill for 7 days in US hospital: 22563.00. Yes, the Canadian room was semi-private and smallish. Daggum sheets felt like they were made of Yak tounge too. But the care was excellent, the professionals paid fairly and the whole (Canadian) trifecta fit on my AMEX card. Still pissed about the Kokanee's tho...
Ken SteersSeptember 09, 2012 - 8:15 am
Morris, I wrote last year while on a corporate fishing trip one of my dudes went into a coma. I thought way too much Pelagrino. Ended up diabetes 1. Life flighted from Bella Bella to Vancouver, beautiful city. Only bed available was in their burn unit where he spent 7 days. The bill was huge! For Blue Shield. The experience was horrible. It might be 2 different hospitals. Regarding jobs seemingly disappearing. we have lost 890,000 manufacturing jobs in California these past 5 years alone. I work for a company that only works for manufacturers in America. Trust me when I say manufacturing jobs, as we know them have left. So has construction, natural resources, financial, agricultural and customer service. The reasoning is the US is now the most expensive place to do business. Highest corporate taxes, highest pay roll. I'M NOT DEFENDING ANYTHING! Please don't shoot the messenger. The fact is that our economic base can not support our government spending. We spend 40% more than we take in. I say the only way we can bring back jobs is to create incentive for the job creators to bring their jobs back. You've said that we need to invest, (spend) more. I say that if we got results that were positive we can't spend enough. But alas we are ranked 27th in education and the Great Society experiment has failed. On top of all that, our USD is devaluing at the fastest rate since, well ever. We are in agree on many things. We need our jobs back. I say that this is not a Republican or Democrat thing because the last good Democrat President sounded more like Ronald Reagan than Reagan even did and he got shot. We need new thinking I say dogs living with cats total chaos is a better situation than the path we are going down now.
MorrisSeptember 09, 2012 - 11:09 am
Folks, ya might want to sit down for this: Ken and Morris agree. Morris agrees 100% with Ken's last post. (anyone else hear that boom? Or was it a trumpet like noise followed by...are those horses? Four???)
JohnSeptember 09, 2012 - 7:43 pm
Morris: When you start agreeing with Ken Steers, methinks you're in serious need of a hug. No one can disagree with platitudes; I too favor apple pie, a sound dollar and women of easy virtue. Where you (and I) probably disagree with Mr. Steers et al. is on the details, such as your experience in Canada. Some years ago, The State Department's Inspector General did a survey of medical care at our embassies. In Canada, by a vast majority, our diplomats and their dependents preferred belonging to the Canadian system instead of having to deal with Blue Cross: better, cheaper care and no hassle. This is the same story we were told by good friends who were recently posted in Ottawa: the Canadian Medicare system (we even stole the name from them) is far superior to anything we have---unless you can afford to pay 100% out of pocket to go to the Mayo or Cleveland Clinic--o/a $2,500 per day just for the bed. If I had space, I could relate many similar stories about medical care abroad and why tens of thousands of Americans each year go overseas as "medical tourists", seeking care they cannot afford or have been denied here. But facts do not really matter in this debate, since right wing ideology must always trump facts.