Friday, April 18, 2014
PLACERVILLE, CALIFORNIA
99 CENTS

Responsible Growth requires a plan

EDITOR:

I would like to tell you know why I love Shingle Springs.

Our family moved to Shingle Springs from the Bay Area in 2005. At the time, our children were 7 and 9. We used to live on the outskirts of Fairfield, which is a city of more than 100,000 residents. I have experienced hastened growth in my neighborhood before. I watched as fields turned into homes, apartments and low-income housing, which in turn brought traffic, pollution and crime. Our quiet little bedroom community was turning into something nondescript. It was quickly becoming “Anytown USA.” The morning and evening commutes were terrible, and congested. We decided to move out of the “rat race” and settle in the Foothills. Our children have thrived. Even though we have lived here for a relatively short time, we have grown to love this area and plan to live here for many more decades. We currently live on a 1.5 acre parcel, surrounded by homes with similar acreage. We live down the street from the existing ranch land and purchased our home because of the open space. The ranch is currently zoned as R5. I would like to keep the current zoning in place in order to preserve the lifestyle we chose for our family.

When I first learned of the proposed San Stino Subdivision, and Tilden Park, I became concerned. If allowed to go through as written, it will double the population of our little town. We have no infrastructure in place to accommodate such an undertaking. The existing Ponderosa overpass is already overcrowded and poses many safety concerns when it comes to traffic during the morning and afternoon commute times. More often than not, there are cars blocking intersections and lined up to the freeway on the offramp just to get home or drop kids off at the high school. As it is, the overpass needs to be widened and redesigned. If you allow high density rezoning to occur, you are opening Shingle Springs to more developers who are not invested in this community. Responsible growth requires a plan.

This is why it is important to remove the Shingle Springs Community Region Line to prevent irresponsible growth. Our freeway frontage image is a blight. Shingle Springs is becoming a hodgepodge of “Oh yeah, lets put that there” instead of having a cohesive plan when it comes to architecture and design. Constructing a community of over 1,000 Mid to High Density Cookie Cutter Homes doesn’t make sense to our rural community. The Tilden Park Hotel, Restaurant and Market development is planned in the wrong location. Wild Chaparral Drive is not large enough to accommodate the traffic generated by such a project. As a community, we need to have vision and establish a plan for our future. It is my hope that our county supervisors take the best interest of our community to heart, and listen to the people who live here. I wrote my District Supervisor to voice my concerns, and I suggest that Mountain Democrat readers do the same. It is time to unite in order to preserve our way of life.

Our family chose Shingle Springs because of its small town charm, and the carefree life it provides for our children. If we wanted traffic, improper planning and cookie cutter subdivisions, we would have stayed in Fairfield.

TERI SPEEL
Shingle Springs

Letters to the Editor

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Discussion | 88 comments

  • Liane BowenJanuary 28, 2013 - 1:25 pm

    Amen, well said. Keep Shingle Springs rural. If the property owners want to sub-divide their properties to match the current zoning designations of RE-5 or RE-1 and are willing to take responsibility for the improvements needed in order to make that happen, I have no problem with that. All things considered, it would be irresponsible for the BOS to allow either one of these projects to move forward.

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  • Diane ShoffJanuary 28, 2013 - 1:56 pm

    As a bay area transplant of 22 years, I too am deeply concerned about the planned developments of Tilden Park, and San Stino. French Creek Road, nor the rest of our community, can support the proposed growth. The area currently zoned R5, should remain R5 so unrestricted and ill advised projects like those mentioned above, should not be allowed to destroy our rural way of life.

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  • Frank VerdinJanuary 28, 2013 - 8:22 pm

    There is a petition being circulated online by the ShingleSpringsCommunityAlliance.com for the removal of the Region boundary line. There is also a "No.SanStino" Facebook page residents may join my clicking "Like" to stay abreast of news. "Keep Shingle Springs Rural!"

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  • Kristine MeltonJanuary 29, 2013 - 8:15 am

    I fully agree with Mrs. Speel. I couldn't have said it better. Shingle Springs is a rural community that many of us chose as our home precisely because it is rural. Neighboring Cameron Park serves those who wish to live in a suburban community. Please join the Shingle Springs Community Alliance and make your voice heard. Contact your supervisor. We are the voters, and our elected officials are supposed to represent us and protect our interests, but we have to speak up now, before we lose our way of life.

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  • Kathy OttenbergJanuary 29, 2013 - 10:52 pm

    Thank you, Teri, for this well-written letter. I am an Urban Planner by training. I got into the field in order to help create smart growth, since I watched so much 'sprawl' occur in California in the 1960's and '70's. However, I learned that poorly planned growth is usually a matter of 'politics' and 'money talks'. I certainly hope that we are able to come together as a community and make our votes & voices stronger than the effect of outside money. It takes a lot of effort to fight the outside investors who want to make money off of our community. I applaud those who have worked so hard already to create the Shingle Springs Community Alliance, and I hope everyone will look at the web page for notifications of Supervisors' meeting where our attendance is needed. Also, I believe that the Alliance needs donations to help print flyers, etc. High density residential growth will cost current residents in terms of higher taxes (more sheriff's deputies needed, etc.); this has been shown by numerous studies over the past 50 years. So, it's worth investing now, in order to prevent higher taxes in the near future.

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 05, 2013 - 1:20 pm

    TERI SPEEL, I trust that you do appreciate that when you lived on the “outskirts” of Fairfield you were degrading the rural quality of Fairfield? So it cannot be lost on you that when you fled the mess that you helped to create in Fairfield and you landed in Shingle Springs you were twice guilty of degrading other people’s quality of life. Are you suggesting that new arrivals to El Dorado County settle for multi-family hives? ALL OF YOU have ruined “my” county. Raise the draw bridge? What hypocrisy!!!

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  • EvelynFebruary 05, 2013 - 1:57 pm

    Phil: Where in Teri's letter do you find her advocating that "new arrivals to El Dorado County settle for multi-family hives"? I don't get that from her "If you allow high density rezoning to occur, you are opening Shingle Springs to more developers who are not invested in this community."

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 05, 2013 - 2:35 pm

    Evelyn, ”multi-family hives” was found within the context of a question to Teri. Where does she propose to place new arrivals? Does Terry’s future provide for new arrivals? Does Terry offer the rancher (invested for generations) a funded Ag. Preserve alternative to subdivision. And since when was it possible for a developer to develop without investment. . . . oh . . . I get it . . . he has no nostalgic deep tie emotional investment to the past . . . just a dirty capital investment . . . and he might make some money/profit . . . sob . . .

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 05, 2013 - 2:58 pm

    oops! . . . sorry . . . Teri

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  • PhilFebruary 05, 2013 - 3:07 pm

    Phil: I'm inclined to think there's a misunderstanding. But I'll leave that to Teri or others.

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  • EvelynFebruary 05, 2013 - 3:24 pm

    I'm clearly losing it!!! (The above to Phil was written by me, Evelyn -- I think)

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 05, 2013 - 3:32 pm

    A Freudian slip!!! Hey, everybody! Evelyn's REAL name is Phil (somebody).

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  • robertdnollFebruary 06, 2013 - 7:42 am

    more people from the valley,well, ask yourselves but please keep your answers to yourselves,i don't care about the drivel

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 06, 2013 - 7:49 am

    robertdnoll, how many years have you called EDC your home?

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  • chrispytahoeFebruary 06, 2013 - 8:55 am

    The bay area morons are the absolute worst kind of tourist. The way they complain on vacation is the way they complain when they move to our rural county. "but in San Jose we have 160 channels of HD, the sushi is better, the soccer fields are better, BLAH BLAH BLAH." The very things they are trying to escape are brought with them. I have a friend, she is a veterinarian here in Tahoe. She moved here about 5 years ago, and it took that long for her to downshift and become a normal human being. When her bay trash friends come to visit, she can now see how intolerable they are. Take these people out of thier cubicles and tract mazes, and they are as clueless as a new born. BAY TRASH GO HOME! there I'm done.

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  • CherylFebruary 06, 2013 - 9:29 am

    Phil & Crispy, do you know how many empty existing houses are in El Dorado county? I have personally watched while some of these trashed foreclosed homes have been bought by people from cities west of us who want to raise their kids in a better environment away from the rat race. They have cleaned them up, painted them and are contributing members of our communities and bringing money into our economy. They aren't tourists, who can be insufferable, they are people who were born somewhere they are now choosing not to be.

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  • cookie65February 06, 2013 - 10:10 am

    Cheryl, I agree with you, but I also agree with the spirit of Phil's comment. My family has called El Dorado county home for over 70 years. Over the years I have witnessed many transplants seeking space and seclusion arrive in El Dorado county only to turn right around and attempt to prevent what they brought here. The secret is to live as far away from Highway 50 as you can. The flatlanders tend to congregate along the main corridors so that they can have easy access to all the stuff flatlanders can't do without. If someone buys property and moves here they should expect others to do the same and they should expect business to follow. If they are anywhere near the freeway they should expect maximum density because that is exactly what caused them to want to leave their last bedroom community. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again expecting different results.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 06, 2013 - 10:24 am

    How many of those homes that were trashed were a result of people losing everything? Is it right to trash any home--no. However were they promised something by the county--that was not delivered. Were they young families who could not afford to do anything to their homes--because of fees being to high to build on ? Here in Pollock people are buying --the market is very cheap... because people lost their homes. We have children here whose families now have to stand in bread lines, more every day in Pollock. Over and over people have brought up that a community can not just be retired seniors...it must be a mix of people. The seniors we have in the mobile parks--fixed income--they have lived here for a very long time. When people talk about our main street--we have a large retirement park..they are not being addressed. Do we just do away with the park so that visitors can see some kind of theme when they enter? I agree with the article--when I finally stayed--my grandmother told me to honor this places history. I was the outsider. I learned the history--I love listening to people talk--I honor the stories of how this place grew. History matters.

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  • residentFebruary 06, 2013 - 10:49 am

    chrispy and veerkamp believe rights are relative to location seniority (and relatives), but try this on. The county has a plan, or it doesn't have a plan, or it changes its plan when it wants to. Everyone living here thinks they know the plan....until it changes. Then they must put up or shut up. But the people who have lived here the longest have more right to control their living space than people who came more recently. Recent arrivals should go back where they came from if they don't like the new plan. People who have been here a long time can ...... what? Cut a deal?

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 06, 2013 - 12:21 pm

    Our town meeting s supervisor did not want to hear our opinions--its not a community "visioning." Its directed to us being a "what?"- a resort town on its way to Tahoe? Have the planners ever seen when the gate is closed and all the people come in town during bad weather ? One time a police officer had to tell them to go home by using a megaphone. Leave us to parades (logging days, wagon train weekends, chili cook offs) and other family activities to invite them in--really pay attention to what the campers want--they will tell you. A park, small movie theater, a choice of diners (where they can wear their camping clothes. Something for their kids to do--in their two week stay. Let our communities make money again with lumber. Let people explore our ranches and wineries. You can not tell people what to do--that has nothing to do with a community at all.

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 06, 2013 - 12:31 pm

    resident asserts, “chrispy and veerkamp believe rights are relative to location seniority”. Resident, substitute the word “perspectives” for “rights” and you will be correct with respect to my comments on this thread. Being a fourth generation EDC resident gives me no superior rights. But it does explain certain elements of my perspective on growth. I have witnessed the economy of this county mature from agrarian to the service/tech/bedroom/ omelet economy of today. I have witnessed the birth and evolution of land use planning and many of planning’s abuses as well as benefits. I have witnessed orchards, fields and open spaces give way to “you people”. The maturation of this county can be (and is) as nostalgically painful as the growing up of puppies, children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Things change. Communities grow. Welcome to “my” home. Things will change. Accept it. Those who have recently found refuge in El Dorado County and now sound a cry to stop development are hypocrites. Enjoy the moment. It is so brief.

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  • CherylFebruary 06, 2013 - 12:32 pm

    Exactly Fran, most of the homes that were trashed because they were lost in foreclosure were because of the bankers, unemployment and bad economy. I can't blame the homeowner's for being so angry that they ripped everything out of the house, I would be devastated if it happened to me. I have been watching new owners of two houses on Gilmore working so hard fixing them up and I certainly don't resent them for not being born here. These are existing homes, not people coming in and wanting to change anything. Fran, I know you are involved in alot more than I am as far as Camino/Pollock issues and city government, and by the way, your bus stop looks much better, so maybe you can enlighten me on what anyone is trying to change in our area, I will be on the bandwagon with you to stop it.

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 06, 2013 - 12:41 pm

    cheryl, natives of this county do not resent new residents. Natives DO resent new residents’ hypocrisy wrt growth.

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  • CherylFebruary 06, 2013 - 12:59 pm

    Oh really Phil? Then why are their regulars on here who are always saying to those that oppose their views whether it be political, gun control or whatever to "move it you don't like it". Most new people who move who did so because they like things just the way they are. The ones who most want change are the developers.

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  • CherylFebruary 06, 2013 - 1:03 pm

    And what's wrt?

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  • residentFebruary 06, 2013 - 1:11 pm

    ok veerkamp, you have a superior perspective. If you were only 3rd generation, maybe good perspective, 2nd gen=fair, 1st=weak. From your superior perspective why are new arrivals somehow more guilty of changing the way things are? Seems overall they probably have less influence than than the GOBs. Are the new arrivals more guilty than others of buying a house or a piece of land for sale? Bright idea: Put up a big sign saying YOU MAY VISIT AND LEAVE YOUR MONEY BUT PLEASE DO NOT STAY.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 06, 2013 - 1:12 pm

    Cheryl...I have no answers--I have always worked on children s events. I love when groups work together for a common goal. I am not running for any thing--but I refuse to look the other way on issues such as where donations go. Once again stop on by--and we can talk. I have always been for a visual and performing center at the old school (which is one of our buildings that should be painted--I had recommended murals with children) The man sitting next to me-tried to bring up the idea of a cultural center at the meeting--he was told they would get back to him. They didnt--nor was their intention to do so. I used to live on Gilmore--I lived across from Sherwood forest. Loved it there. I dont care if people are born here or not. I do resent when a group decides for all--at my table--one of the remarks was...if they wont paint--we ll make them. This has nothing to do with a community. This is arrogance. I think of people with a crayon box--making everyone use one color-- while demanding that everyone color in between the lines. I wrote the article about the DOT because they said they would come back--and they did. Did I mention that im not running for any thing. I can not understand why one group would want so much attention given to them. I have thanked every group I have worked with. The volunteer pool are all the same people...and getting tighter. But what is more discerning is that the people in charge--are in several groups at once--as leaders. How does that produce fresh ideas? How is that not a conflict? And accountability for donated money--where does that come in? Do we look the other way? I do believe that if one moves to an area--they should have a basic respect for the history and the people who have lived here a while. I have no problem with new ideas...the meeting did not allow for true debating of ideas...not with a statement as...making someone do something...or not wanting to move here because of a street. I am not as political as one might think--did I mention I am not running for anything.

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 06, 2013 - 1:22 pm

    Resident, asks, "why are new arrivals somehow more guilty of changing the way things are?" THEY ARE NOT. But they ARE more vulnerable to the appearance of hypocrisy when they attempt to stop growth. And, yes, a longer historical perspective is, in fact, superior to a shorter historical perspective. Just as my Dad, RIP, is smarter today than he was when he was alive. The older I got the smarter my Dad got. Strange.

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 06, 2013 - 1:28 pm

    Cheryl, with respect to (wrt) new arrivals to this county WELCOME!!!! Bless you! Enjoy! . . . and in return, welcome those who follow you and find what you have found . . . in full recognition that as YOU have changed the community, THEY too will change the community.

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  • residentFebruary 06, 2013 - 1:30 pm

    good, now we know: old-timers can want the county to retain its rural character that we love and they can say so, but the people who come here and love the rural character that we love will be BRANDED AS HYPOCRITES if they try to hold onto what they loved that brought them here in the first place. Message received.

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 06, 2013 - 1:40 pm

    Resident, perhaps my 1:28 pm comment to Cheryl will round round your understanding of my point? Probably not. You seem determined to miss.

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  • CherylFebruary 06, 2013 - 1:44 pm

    @resident - I KNOW!! The mixed messages are crazy! When I read some of these comments I hope that new residents don't think all of us hate them. A friend of mine just moved here last year and he said one of the best things about this area is how nice people are, it made me feel really good. I guess he hasn't yet discovered the comment section....

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  • cookie65February 06, 2013 - 1:55 pm

    Cheryl, I am curious how people who lost their homes do to forclosure were because of the bankers. The bankers or lenders provided loans in order for people to purchase homes. In many cases they did with 100% finacing (no money down), in many cases they did so under no documentation of a persons assets or savings. Most of the homes were overvalued but the lender did the loan anyway. Some of the people who took out these loans couldn't pay the first months utility bill. The bankers and lenders were forced into these positions by a political agenda. The only party not forced into any of this were the people taking out the loan. They signed a contract out their own volition. I don't disagree that there is plenty of blame to go around but to claim the borrower had no part in it is dishonest.

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  • residentFebruary 06, 2013 - 1:56 pm

    cheryl, some seem determined to miss the point that its the county and county planning department and board of supervisors AND DEVELOPERS who decide what happens to our livable habitat. It's a bit much to blame the people who read the rules and decided to come here because they liked what they found.

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  • CherylFebruary 06, 2013 - 2:09 pm

    @Cookie, I never said the borrower had no part in the foreclosure mess, but the banks were irrespondsible in giving loans to people that were clearly not capable of paying the money back. Your statements are exactly why the bankers had a part in it, giving loans for overvalued homes to those that did not have the funds needed. Back in 1988 when we purchased a house we had to jump thru hoops to obtain a loan and we had a spotless credit report. It seems recently that the banks made it too easy and you have to wonder just who benefited? The banks who got the write offs? And then got another credit from the federal government? No dishonesty on my part.

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  • Paddy O'furnitureFebruary 06, 2013 - 3:01 pm

    I've been here since I was 6 years old. Raley's used to have an old fashioned soda fountain, and there was no McDonald's or Kmart. We shopped at Ben Franklin and Cash Merc and got burgers at Fosters once or twice a month. The only traffic lights in town were on Hiway 50, and there was no such things as "traffic" as we know it now. I don't like how crowded it's getting, but what can you do-it's a great place to live and people who pass through like it. The thing that burns my butt is Liberals moving to a conservative rural area and trying to tell us we've been doing it wrong. You moved here because you liked it, so don't try to change it. Don't move near an airport and then complain about the noise.

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  • cookie65February 06, 2013 - 3:15 pm

    Cheryl, the lenders where forced to make those loans. They knew is wasn't good business which is why they have never made those types of loans. But then the leftists like barney frank and chris dodd made home ownership a right. The lenders were told they would be punished for not making home ownership easier for low income and those who consistently vote for liberalism (that last part is the nicest way I can describe them).

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  • cookie65February 06, 2013 - 3:21 pm

    Paddy, do you remember the Sambo's restaurant that used to be at the east end of Broadway?

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  • Shingle SeniorFebruary 06, 2013 - 3:24 pm

    Thank you Teri for your letter. Your point is taken and most of these posters have gotten way off point. The BOS and power of this county have and continue to hand this county to the developers and special interests with no questions asked. In Shingle Sprins they allowed Nissan to put in a car dealership with outside loud speakers....illegal under our county laws. The county allowed a car repair business to build in an established neighborhood and spew toxic chemicals in our neighborhood....illegal. The county allows business to build and then set condition they must meet and these conditions are never enforced.....illegal. I have lived here over 30 years and I am 3rd generation. If a home owner tried some of the stuff that the county allows businesses to do I would have been in jail a long time ago. The developer of Tilden Park is trying to build it in a field with three underground springs and it is the drainage for our entire neighborhood (over 140) homes.....county says let 'em build. The State Dept. of Transportation says that this development is illegal because there is no upgrade to the intersection at Ponderosa Road and Hwy 50....the county says let 'em build. San Stino is no better and the problems with this development are massive.....the county says let 'em build. It is clear to anyone with a 2nd grade education what is going on in our county and it is time for people to get informed and fight for the right to keep our county rural.

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  • "Accept It"February 06, 2013 - 4:35 pm

    Shingle Senior brings us back to reality. The GOB network is a major screw up. "Accept it."

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  • CherylFebruary 06, 2013 - 4:41 pm

    Cookie, the banks were able to make a lot of money off of the foreclosures, just google "how the banks profited off foreclosures", it is really sickening how the taxpayers, once again, got screwed. And to Shingle Senior, yes, the comments always get off track, it's called conversation. And Cookie, I remember Sambo's, they had to change the name because it wasn't PC, must have been those darn liberals again, LOL

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  • chrispytahoeFebruary 06, 2013 - 4:45 pm

    I moved to Placerville in 1991 at the age of 19.I have not been in El Dorado as long as some of you, but long enough to see big changes, even since 91. I have some additional perspective for what is happening. I grew up in an area of New England that WAS and IS semi rural. You see, in that part of the world these areas are built out. The majority of semi rural areas were build around wagon roads and town commons dating back to the early 1600s. So everyone in my home town has at least an acre. You do not see track homes or fences. California development is a huge scam. Tons of land, but they cram everyone together in 'desirable locations' and trick people into thinking they are getting in on something. That’s just sad.

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  • Paddy O'furnitureFebruary 06, 2013 - 5:00 pm

    Cookie, I do remember Sambo's. Had breakfast there quite a few times. Right before going across the street to Beno's to get a new pair of Levi's, and then up the walk to Hangtown Pharmacy (that was at the upper end of the shopping center, right?). Those were the days. Trying to remember if there was anything at all on Missouri Flat road then...I think Placerville was mostly on Broadway an Main Streets and the newer stuff on P'ville drive. My dad used to go to the Westener, a little bar and grill, which I think is now Durango's. Remember that one?

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  • Joke's on youFebruary 06, 2013 - 5:39 pm

    1. Long established locals (like Veerkamps) get politically powerful, approve lots of new developments. 2. They sell off big chunks of their land and cash in big time. 3. People from urban areas come here for better lifestyle. 4. Locals keep selling land, more developments, more people from urban areas. 5. Recent transplants grow in numbers, become politically influential. 6. locals decry the transplants, tell the newcomers not to change "our ways". 7. With the population shift, soon Liberals will take over local politics. 8. Whose fault is it, Mr. V?

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 06, 2013 - 7:52 pm

    Joke's on you asks, "Whose fault is it, Mr. V?" - - - It? Fault? I am puzzled. If "it" is growth, change, shifting political goals/factions/agendas, demographics then there is no "joke". There is no fault to assign. I certainly have not been attempting to assign blame/fault for the processes at work. To all the new residents of El Dorado County I say, “Welcome”. Please reciprocate. Roll out the welcome mat for those behind you who seek what you have found. Or convince me that your arrival carries with it a right to exclude. My use of the word “hypocrite” is directed to those who arrive and then propose to exclude.

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  • EvelynFebruary 06, 2013 - 8:30 pm

    I see a Veerkamp beat me to it. So, I shall create a degree of separation ................. ..........................................

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  • EvelynFebruary 06, 2013 - 8:31 pm

    JOKE: You may be relieved to hear that THE Veerkamps are virtually a myth. Possibly you may know the majority of your relatives, but I don’t know most of mine. Probably most of THE Veerkamps would say the same. On my sacred honor I swear to you I have never participated in, known of, or even have been invited to a business meeting of THE Veerkamps. The reason is simple. Our lives are separate. We are not a singularity. There is no mafia head or chieftain. Not even a Newsletter! But I’ll share with you a personal story. Five or six years ago I took my car to the garage for something or other. Upon identifying myself as the owner of said vehicle another customer snorted to the air in general and anyone who was breathing it, “Who do THE Veerkamps think they are?” Having not polled THE Veerkamps, I was unable to assuage his ire. I’m still not. About all I can say is that we – one at a time -- were born here, some of us remained, we all (I think) love El Dorado County, and there are many people I know much better than my genetic family.

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  • MelanieFebruary 06, 2013 - 8:43 pm

    resident, surely you know that the county planners have NO say in what the Board of Supervisors (BOS) approves? They are worker bees, told to write environmental Negative Declarations for every single project. This county is planned by the developers with the blessings of the BOS. Habitat and natural spaces? The county has spent more than one million dollars in the past six years on habitat plans. The oak woodland plan was originally based on science and economics, and the developers whined and had it diluted by the BOS; the county got sued, and lost the lawsuit. Money down the drain. The Integrated Natural Resource Management Plan, or INRMP, has had no consultation with regulatory agencies CDFW (formerly DFG) and USFWS; therefore, it has no teeth, no mitigation certainty. It could have been a plan that worked on rare plants. Again, it is because the developers interfered, and the BOS went along with it. In the paper right now is an article about EDAC (Economic Development Advisory Committee) and it talks about the tireless commitment of "volunteers" on the committee. I say, BS. It mentions Art Marinaccio, developer consultant, and Jim Brunello, developer. It doesn't mention Kathye Russell and Cindy Schaefer, but they are in the development community as well. THEY are planning the county. Your newly elected El Dorado High School board trustees were elected because El Dorado Hills developers spent big $$$ on their campaigns, to ensure that school district lines get changed, so that their development gets to go to Oakridge High School, not Ponderosa (not rich and upscale enough for them, they charge more $$$ for Oakridge HS homes). Money talks, many of the electeds are bought and paid for (not all, though).

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  • MelanieFebruary 06, 2013 - 8:46 pm

    Phil Veerkamp, I don't often agree with what you say, but today, right on. Well spoken.

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  • James E.February 06, 2013 - 11:21 pm

    Evelyn is a Veerkamp? Now, if we can get the last names for Dee and Cookie, we can all be one happy family. Yes, I think that Paddy's last name is really O'furniture. You would think it isn't, therefore it must be.

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  • Old JoeFebruary 07, 2013 - 12:34 am

    @ Phil Veerkamp: What is your vision for El Dorado County? If you don't mind listing in ten bullet-ed statements. Thank you.

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  • cookie65February 07, 2013 - 6:14 am

    Beno's for Levi's and the playground at the drive-in. Wasn't their a cowboy on a horse on the back of the drive-in movie screen?

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  • cookie65February 07, 2013 - 6:22 am

    Cheryl, you are missing my point. NONE of it would have happened in the first place had the government not intruded itself into the mortgage business and insisted lenders were not offering loans to low income and unqualified borrowers. From there it created a domino effect. http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/09/28/franks_fingerprints_are_all_over_the_financial_fiasco/

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 07, 2013 - 7:02 am

    James speculates, "Evelyn is a Veerkamp?" I have to ask, Colonel, how could the Good Ol' Boy network possibly survive. If your speculation over this "Evelyn Veerkamp" thing connects with reality then she is a Good Ol’ Boy? . . . . . . or perhaps random distribution applies to Veerkamps just as it does to races, ethnicities, religions, sexes and planet of origin.

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  • Paddy O'furnitureFebruary 07, 2013 - 7:07 am

    Don't remember a horse on the back of the drive-in screen. We only went there a few times, we caught most of our movies at the Empire. Saw Smokey and the Bandit and the Blues Brothers there.

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 07, 2013 - 7:26 am

    Old Joe, follow the water. - Parker’s Marble Valley - The water to supply this project will be the MOST EXPENSIVE water produced and delivered by EID. The required water CANNOT be delivered by gravity from the eastern plants. Those transmission lines are already running over capacity in the summertime. The required water will have to be pumped ($$$) up to EDH treatment plant (~ 300 vertical ft.) From there it will have to be pumped ($$$) to Oak Ridge – (~170 vertical ft.). From there it will have to be pumped ($$$) to Bass Lake Tanks –(~540 vertical ft.) (Folsom Lake to BLT approximately 1010 vertical feet). The pumping and transmission infrastructure from Oak Ridge to BLT needs to be built. The transmission infrastructure to Parker/Gallo development needs to be built. Do the math. $50,000,000 from the developers might be a starting point. - French Creek Road and Old French Town Road project - This project is the most “water friendly”. That is to say, it is the least impactful on EID’s production/transmission costs. - Diamond-Dorado center - Substantial upgrades and modifications to EID's existing distribution system will be required. Approximately 2,400 ft of 6" pipe along Hwy 49 will need to be upsized. A pressure reducing station (PRS) near the top of Sacramento hill will need to be repositioned to allow it to properly work in conjunction with the Diamond Springs Main (DSM). These vexing problems were under consideration while I was EID's Sr. Distribution Operator. The solutions are complicated and expensive. The existing PRS near Placerville is too high on the hill and needs to be relocated approximately 25’-30’ lower on the hydraulic grade to allow its discharge strategy to be coordinated with the DSM’s requirements. The developers need to pay.

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 07, 2013 - 7:29 am

    Paddy, my sister and I saw THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL at the Empire

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  • EvelynFebruary 07, 2013 - 7:35 am

    There's a nasty rumor that I'm the sister.

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  • Bill E.February 07, 2013 - 7:39 am

    As per the norm, the flow of mis-information cast by the naysayers is wildly off base. To look at today without looking back 40 years is a huge mistake. Historically farmers have sold off pieces of their land to pay bills to keep farming. Passing down the family business and property is also a problem as the pie keeps getting smaller, no one wants to farm and at some point it is no longer a viable ag parcel. The property sold is closest to the road because it is easiest to develop so now 1 to 20 acre parcels ring the property. Some of those buyers do property 3 way property splits. This happens multiple times over decades. The family grows up and no one wants that old lifestyle. Property close to the freeway has development value and the family cashes in. Leapfrog development along with the seemingly benign parcel splits are the root causes to the development push. Holiday lake area was part of a ranch, South Shingle area was multiple ranches, French Creek is in transition as described above. Some rancher sold the property that the local naysayers now live in and it is getting crowded on top of the hill of moral high ground. Cuzin Phil has got it right so it always impressive when pioneer families are able to hold on to their historical ranches.

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  • EvelynFebruary 07, 2013 - 7:56 am

    Thank you, Bill. That "paying the bills" thing is a HUGE biggie.

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  • Paddy O'furnitureFebruary 07, 2013 - 8:18 am

    James, I think the reason Cookie and Dee don't use their last names is simply because they don't need to. Once in a great while, someone so outstanding in their field comes along who doesn't use a surname, i.e., Madonna, Beyonce, etc. "Dee" and "Cookie" are destined to become legends of conservative commentary. As for O'furniture...

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  • Paddy O'furnitureFebruary 07, 2013 - 8:19 am

    O’furniture hearkens back to the olden day in the land of Eire, when me pappy was a notable woodworker. He, like Dee, Cookie, and Beyonce, was known only as Paddy (I’m named after him, don’t you know). Then, another Paddy moved into the village. Me pap didn’t like being called “old Paddy”, so folks distinguished them by calling pap “Paddy o’ the furniture”. Similarly, throughout all of time, the surnames of many people were their occupations. Think “Smith”, “Baker”, “Sadler” and even “Longhofer”. Yes, regarding that last one, back in the days of ancient Germania, if a man had a very short hofer, there were persons who were skilled in the art of lengthening them. The process was, however, not without risks and even a bit of pain. On occasion, those of fainter spirit would during the process, emit a mighty groan. There were called “Groaners” or just “Groans”. It was one of these who, when landing at Ellis Island years later, did seize upon the opportunity to shed this terrible surname and rearranged a couple of letters, therefore going from Groan to Garon. And now you know………….. The Rest of the Story. Paddy O’furniture. Good day?

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  • DB SmithFebruary 07, 2013 - 8:24 am

    Paddy, Good Mornin and what a FUN letter! Colonel, did you ever get your hofer lengthened?

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  • James E.February 07, 2013 - 9:26 am

    DB, the hofer is what it is. An operation to lengthen a hofer would be quite painful.

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 07, 2013 - 9:47 am

    Thank you, Paddy. Much is explained. You strengthen my argument that longer (historical perspective) is better than shorter. Size matters. Sorry, James. John, huge respect!

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  • DeeFebruary 07, 2013 - 2:04 pm

    Paddy, thank you for the laughs.

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  • Paddy O'furnitureFebruary 07, 2013 - 2:29 pm

    My pleasure Dee. ;^)

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  • DeeFebruary 07, 2013 - 2:33 pm

    Phil is correct that population is growth is here to stay. I would like to see more conversation regarding in-fill projects and pedestrian pockets. Love in-fill projects but pedestrian pockets have been used to build high profit residential but tend to wind down and the commercial never becomes a reality. One reason is because those residential residents don't want their life style downgraded. Sign, we live in interesting times.

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  • Old JoeFebruary 07, 2013 - 7:30 pm

    @Phil Veerkamp. Phil: Thank you for the education on the requirements for the distribution of water. My question was and is(given you are a long time resident)what are your thoughts about growth (what is now called "vision") in El Dorado County. Thank you

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 07, 2013 - 8:05 pm

    Old Joe, my Great-grandfather, Francis, landed here in 1852. A friend of mine who was working toward his civil engineering license back around 1975 made a project out of researching my family’s original property transactions. Jim discovered that Francis’ first recorded property transaction was not for land. Great-grandpa’s first recorded property transaction was for a ¼ interest in the 32nd share of the Prairie Water Company. My “vision”, Old Joe, is borrowed from Great-grandpa Francis Veerkamp. Follow the water. There you will vision the growth of El Dorado County.

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 07, 2013 - 8:15 pm

    Jim, are you wondering whether or not I play "Sim City" with El Dorado County and place homes, industries, roads, water lines, schools . . . . . . in varying configurations? No. I do not. The county will grow will change will break hearts will make money. It will probably be messy. Such is life. Deal with it.

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 07, 2013 - 8:28 pm

    LINK - SIMCITY - coming March 5th - Digital Deluxe Edition Includes Heroes and Villains Set, French City Set, German City Set, British City Set

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  • Old JoeFebruary 07, 2013 - 9:30 pm

    @ Phil Veerkamp. Following water doesn't answer my question. My request is quite simple. I will rephrase, what is your "private thought" on the direction the county should take with regard to growth. Thank you

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  • Foamie Mouth®February 07, 2013 - 10:19 pm

    Old Guy submit ure investergators lisenc to thecop shop. A privat thot is a privat thot. Wots ure own publik thot on the matter? Then, get a life, old guy. Must eye rephraze it 4 u?

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 07, 2013 - 10:50 pm

    Joe, my "private thoughts" will remain private.

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  • Old JoeFebruary 08, 2013 - 11:35 pm

    @Phil Veerkamp: Phil, On at least three occasions, you've labeled residents that have posted on this thread, desiring a rural lifestyle, as indulging in hypocrisy or as Hypocrites. I find their honesty refreshing. Yet, when asked how you would like to see the county developed you hold your view as private. You are not so private in attacking people for their views or their wish to remain in a rural environment (such as it is). Where does the borderline of hypocrisy lie? Is it with those that moved here for a rural lifestyle to escape a busy life? Is it with those long time family rancher's heirs that enjoyed the rural life growing up and now want to cash in on their ancestor's hard work and make a mockery of their ancestor's dreams? Is it with those that care only about the almighty dollar, and don't care about the urban sprawl the development will create as long as they financially capitalize on it? It's an all about me attitude versus caring about the county and when developing property, being sensitive to what fits within the surrounding plots and housing Indeed, I see a hypocrite.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 09, 2013 - 8:43 am

    I thought Phil did give his view on "growth" PHIL: "Being a fourth generation EDC resident gives me no superior rights. But it does explain certain elements of my perspective on growth. I have witnessed the economy of this county mature from agrarian to the service/tech/bedroom/ omelet economy of today. I have witnessed the birth and evolution of land use planning and many of planning’s abuses as well as benefits. I have witnessed orchards, fields and open spaces give way to “you people”. The maturation of this county can be (and is) as nostalgically painful as the growing up of puppies, children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Things change. Communities grow. " and here: " ALL OF YOU have ruined “my” county. Raise the draw bridge? What hypocrisy!!!" And follow the water...as humans--you have to. Its one of our basic needs to survive. It has been fought over and coveted through human history more than any other treasure.

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 09, 2013 - 12:23 pm

    Old Joe, I concede to your density. I have failed in my attempts to explain how I can simultaneously observe the hypocrisy of new arrivals to Eldorado County who, having found refuge from urban hell, raise their palm toward the borders and say, "HALT!" and at the same time convince you, Old Joe, that I possess no personal growth vision outside an overarching notion that growth will happen. Further it will happen, more than likely, near the existing utility and transportation infrastructure. You win, Old Joe. I do pray, however, that El Dorado County’s future density not exceed your own.

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  • EvelynFebruary 09, 2013 - 2:50 pm

    "The Apology-Gotcha Game" - HERE - (Seems written for conservatives, but I find it quite "non-denominational".)

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  • Old JoeFebruary 09, 2013 - 10:43 pm

    Phil, You attack people as hypocrites and you pray.

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  • EvelynFebruary 11, 2013 - 5:47 am

    THE GLOBAL WATER GRAB: MEET THE “NEW WATER BARONS” - HERE

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  • DivinoFebruary 11, 2013 - 3:51 pm

    To all, Let's get to the real issue brought forth by Teri Speel. It appears that Teri is not asking to stop development in Shingle Springs. She is asking for RESPONSIBLE development to take place. Her words in verbatim "Responsible growth requires a plan." The question that needs to be asked is "What is responsible growth?" Obviously, Teri is on the side of keeping the existing zoning as is. BOS are allowing developers to CHANGE the General Plan to meet their needs. Is this right? To meet the developers needs for San Stino is to ground down the hills around French Creek Road to allow for 1,000+ homes and streets to accommodate those homes. Does this seem right to you? The Board of Supervisors are looking at the development for Tilden Park as a gateway to Coloma with a hotel for visitors to stay. Does that seem right to you? People that live around Tilden Park want to put a stop to it because it affects them. Also, there is not an outlet out of Wild Chaparral except back to Ponderosa Road. Remember the fire a few years back that blackened the hills between Shingle Springs and Cameron Park? The residents had one way out of that area. Now, developers want to put more bodies and structures in the same area?!? Scary stuff. As to halting growth by closing the gate behind new residents, NO. I want new residents to have the same lifestyle that I have enjoyed. And, there is plenty of that without the reckless developers, with the help of the BOS, having their way.

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 11, 2013 - 4:40 pm

    Divino, you say, "People that live around Tilden Park want to put a stop to it because it affects them." I'm curious. Where are the people in EDC who would NOT feel affected by the development of an "open space" next to them? And what does an open space suitable for "responsible development" look like anyway? Where are there no "NIMBYS"?

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  • DivinoFebruary 11, 2013 - 4:59 pm

    Phil, you say "open space". Tilden Park is zoned for Residential 1 Acre parcels. People buying property around that area would expect the property to be developed as designated. San Stino development would take agricultural land and residential 5 acre zones to high and medium density zones. There is nothing wrong with developing those sites as designated by the General Plan. Please get off your high-horse, "I've lived here longer than you, so I 'm better than you" attitude. The fact is the BOS are allowing developers to change the zoning use of land to whatever they want. I want them to follow the law like I and others around me have. I didn't change the use of the current Kniesel Collision Center from a sports center to an auto body center by using "Special Use" permits. The BOS did. I'm not even asking the BOS to change the General Plan. I'm asking for the General Plan to be applied to all, including the developers. AND, the way you keep defending the developers, it sounds as if you have something at stake, more than just belittling "NIMBYs". Are you planning to cash in on your property soon? Anyone living near Phil Veerkamp might want to take notice. NI"PhilVeerkamps"BY.

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  • Phil VeerkampFebruary 11, 2013 - 6:16 pm

    Divino, you prompt me to look within. In so doing I suspect that my “energy” on this topic is rooted in “schadenfreude”. I find pleasure in your pain. It was incredibly painful for me when I moved from the family farm to my present ¼ acre with neighbors north, south, east and west. Things change, Divino. Enjoy!

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  • Old JoeFebruary 12, 2013 - 8:07 pm

    Phil,

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  • Old JoeFebruary 12, 2013 - 9:48 pm

    The mirror, Phil, the mirror. Pray more.

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  • Foamie Mouth®February 12, 2013 - 10:03 pm

    Old Joe you know old pope bennie's quittin end of the month. With your bent for neelin and heelin we're puttin in a good word for you. When white smoke rises we'll be shoutin that name: JOE, JOE, JOE.

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