Wednesday, April 23, 2014
PLACERVILLE, CALIFORNIA
99 CENTS

Reward good behavior, don’t squash it

EDITOR:

I have no personal “skin-in-the-game” in regards to Hangtown Haven, and therefore I have no bias one way or the other. As an outsider looking in, I see a group of people who are making an honest effort to improve their lives. They aren’t simply looking for handouts like so many in America today … they’re looking for a hand-up. This is an honorable thing that needs to be encouraged, not squashed.

There are far too many handouts occurring in this country and those handouts keep the recipients in bondage with no hope or ambition of bettering their lives. We need to stop rewarding undesirable behavior and start rewarding behaviors that strengthen society and empowers people to take responsibility for their own situation, and take the steps needed to make it better. As a society, we should encourage and enable circumstances for the homeless to take control of their own destiny and make their own lives better — empower them.

It seems to me that Hangtown Haven is exactly this kind of empowerment. They are self-regulating, self-governing and have laid out some basic rules for a healthy community — rules that need to be abided by in order to remain a part of the community. I would venture to guess that the “homeless issues” occurring in Placerville are being caused by people who are outside of the HH community … people who are unwilling to live by the established HH rules. Dismantling HH won’t do a thing to change the issues being caused by these “outsiders,” all it will do is set back the progress made by those trying to lift themselves out of the pit of despair.

TONIA DYAS
Rescue

Letters to the Editor

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Discussion | 119 comments

  • Fran DuchampNovember 11, 2013 - 7:20 pm

    Nice article. At least a different point of view.

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  • not for hhNovember 13, 2013 - 8:49 am

    That's all fine and dandy except you aren't looking at all that comes with hh. Crime, trespassing, garbage, loitering, smell, nuisance.... I could keep going on and on. All of you that are in favor of hh should attend the meetings and let the homeless stay on your property. Or close by and see how much you like them then. I have one word for you all, FREEWILL!!!!!

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 13, 2013 - 9:13 am

    200 + homeless before the Haven in the same area. BEFORE.

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 13, 2013 - 9:17 am

    Freewill. Two sides. I have the freewill to choose what I believe and say. I did not choose to fall and lose the ability to walk, write, or stand for long periods of time without lots of pain. Sometimes "choices" are not an option.

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  • ughNovember 13, 2013 - 10:09 am

    Being homeless and having chronic pain are so not comparable to me! The crime rate and police contact in that area in the last year have sky rocketed! I read an article where the mountain democrat interviewed the homeless woman last week. One key piece of information stuck out to me. She said none of her family members would help her out. Could you imagine why? I'm not downing the homeless. I just don't feel sorry for them or feel the need to enable them. Because that is what you are doing, enabling. And on top of enabling them, the homeless are trashing our beautiful little town. Smith flat and upper Broadway have never been so compacted with " lower living standards" of people. I knew a homeless man who had a head injury from work. He was also a veteran. He wouldn't step close to hh. He washed windows for money for beer. Kind hearted and misjudged. He wasn't looking for a hand out from the county like hh people are. He chose to be homeless. And he took care of himself and picked up after the other homeless people. Hh has caused more harm than good. Period. Fran, have you ever been a drunk, or been addicted to meth? I'll bet no.

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  • Dink LaneNovember 13, 2013 - 11:02 am

    ugh -- I just re-read John Steinbeck's "The Harvest Gypsies." He talks about the makeshift camps by people looking for work and the Government's camps, and the difference. He also talks about the families that just became homeless and how they will become like the ones who've been wandering for years........... "Ugh", you can ignore people if that makes you feel better, but ignoring does NOT make you a better person.... Maybe it would do you good to sit down and read some California History and form your own opinions from facts -- not "Talking-Heads" cable news.

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 12:24 pm

    Dink was't Steinbeck a writer of fiction?

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  • Dink LaneNovember 13, 2013 - 12:42 pm

    From Oct. 5-12,1936 "The San Francisco News" hired Steinbeck to write a series of articles about "Little Oklahomas" and "Hoovervilles" (examples include Winters, Marysville, and the biggest was where West Sacramento is today). This stirred his passion to write "Grapes of Wrath.".......... "The Harvest Gypsies" talks about the dreadful conditions when these people are left to build houses out of Cardboard and dig toilet holes. How do they get jobs and buy food when they can't even wash up. I watched a McDonald's Manager last winter yell at a homeless woman for washing up in the public restroom..... Where can she go?....... We've been isolated from the horrors of the poor, and we can't figure out how they got in such a mess........... When in fact: "We don't give a Cr#$ and would they please get out of my sight." Go starve.... Tell me Commentors: Are you going to hire these guys at HH? NO? How about helping them get ready to get a job? No, it's easier to kick them to the side of the road...

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 13, 2013 - 12:27 pm

    John Steinbeck: High School: Salinas High School, Salinas, CA (1919) University: Marine Biology, Stanford University (attended intermittently, 1919-1925) New York Drama Critics' Circle Award 1937, for Of Mice and Men Pulitzer Prize for Fiction 1940, for The Grapes of Wrath Nobel Prize for Literature 1962 Presidential Medal of Freedom 1964 The New York Herald Tribune War Correspondent (1943-45) Order of DeMolay Watsonville, CA 1921 American Academy of Arts and Letters 1948 League of American Writers Tonsillectomy Traveled to the USSR 1937 Traveled to the USSR 1947 Issued Concealed Carry Permit California (1938) Issued Concealed Carry Permit New York State (14-May-1942) Shrapnel Injury Heart Attack 20-Dec-1968 (fatal) German Ancestry English Ancestry Irish Ancestry Risk Factors: Smoking FILMOGRAPHY AS ACTOR O. Henry's Full House (19-Sep-1952) · Narrator

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 12:28 pm

    From the 1930s?

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 13, 2013 - 12:31 pm

    UN to Sacramento: You’re Violating Human Rights of Homeless People - See more at: http://homelessnesslaw.org/2012/02/un-to-sacramento-youre-violating-human-rights-of-homeless-people/#sthash.a0eqqB6m.dpuf Big MONEY...can El Dorado afford being sued again....

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 13, 2013 - 12:34 pm

    freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 12:28 pm From the 1930s? Are you asking about the year of Steinbeck? He wrote fiction and nonfiction...and political/social ideas were some of his passions--try Wiki Steinbeck's first novel, Cup of Gold, published in 1929, is based on the life and death of privateer Henry Morgan. It centers on Morgan's assault and sacking of the city of Panama, sometimes referred to as the 'Cup of Gold', and on the woman, fairer than the sun, who was said to be found there.[9] (wiki) ( if not sorry...lololol)

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 13, 2013 - 12:36 pm

    http://www.change.org/topics/economicjustice

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  • ughNovember 13, 2013 - 12:41 pm

    Instead of basing your "facts off of a history book", I suggest you go look for the hard ugly truth where it lies. Upper Broadway, Smith flat rd, all homeless people involved, residents in the general area, businesses in the local area. Go sit at Tijuana tacoria for a day. Talk to a few homeowners. There is good reason this is not being extended. It's not ignoring. It's just the way it is. Hey, I know, go give them your address and let them stay at your house. I'm sure they will be more than appreciative and respect your property.

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  • Dink LaneNovember 13, 2013 - 12:50 pm

    The mentally ill ones have no where to go.... Ask the NRA to fight for them since they have a new interest in "Mental Health."..... Some of our vets, who bleed for this country are homeless because they are "Mentally troubled." and can't cope with a shelter enviroment..... But if we don't put a face on the homeless..... We can ignore them.... Once you have one in your family, and you can't find him or her.... It's different.

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 13, 2013 - 12:55 pm

    ugh You have lost me...but I would not turn anyone away...Ialready said that i was sorry no one listened to the homeowners way back when. what I said was that if you do any "project" and use words such as "sustainable" then really research what you are doing. The Haven was not responsible for the problem--it was already there. I also think shutting down something during holidays and colder weather is a sad choice. It is already done--it was already decided...it never mattered what any one thought...and thats the biggest point. Also I find it interesting that people who are never really on here...who dont use their names...are creating such a rucus...the camp will close. History book? are you asking about Steinbeck? someone asked if he only wrote fiction--the answer is "no." that had nothing to do with the homeless.

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  • hugNovember 13, 2013 - 12:43 pm

    ugh, you ever notice that people like yourself call themselves ugh?

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 13, 2013 - 1:00 pm

    Dink...it is different. The UN is very involved in putting a face on homeless...but many dont recognise the UN...remember people are still say there was no document about the 21st century...shrugging shoulders...and there is...and it is applying itself across the world. No matter what people believe or what they support...the UN exists and world leaders are part of it--they are powerful--and they are the guiding force. Personally...I dont agree with many of the items happening...but I dont pretend they are not real.

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 1:02 pm

    Thankyou Fran how many apples in that pie?

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  • hugNovember 13, 2013 - 1:06 pm

    What's the right number Chuck?

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 13, 2013 - 1:08 pm

    Here is another document everyone can ignor....by the Leaders of the UN : Corporate Sustainability and the United Nations Post-2015 Development Agenda http://www.unglobalcompact.org/docs/news_events/9.1_news_archives/2013_06_18/UNGC_Post2015_Report.pdf

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 1:15 pm

    Fran,Dink I still haven't heard you say how many you personaly have living with you, you wouldn't need a permit for that.

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 13, 2013 - 1:22 pm

    freemason...I am a renter. I have no one living with me. My grandson visits. I sign an agreement for that amount of people only. It is also why my friends say the universe doesnt allow me to own property--because if I could I would adopt animals and people...so before you go into your speech of "see she talks big--and does nothing.." come follow me for a couple of days...even with my disabilities I try to do what I can...and no one feels worse about not doing more than I do, Each year my body fails me just a little more...so for moments I have my temper tantrum...and then I move on. I dont have much...but people are welcome to share what I can give them.

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 13, 2013 - 1:16 pm

    lololol....we already uised the apples. Mock apple pie--for hard times when one doesnt have apples at all...people were brighter before...me included. My grandma said this was common during rationing of food A vintage pie recipe made with saltine crackers and apple pie spice seasonings. Ingredients: pastry for 2-crust 9-inch pie 1 sleeve saltine crackers 2 cups water 2 cups granulated sugar 2 teaspoons cream of tartar 2 tablespoons lemon juice 1 teaspoon grated lemon peel 1 tablespoon butter cinnamon Preparation: Line a 9-inch pie plate with rolled-out pastry. Break saltines coarsely into the pie shell. Combine water, sugar, and cream of tartar in a saucepan; bring to a boil. Simmer for 15 minutes. Add lemon juice and peel; cool. Pour the syrup over crackers. Dot with butter and sprinkle generously with cinnamon. Cover with top crust and flute edge. Cut slits into top to allow steam to escape. Bake in a 425° oven for 20 to 30 minutes, or until crust is golden brown and crisp. Serve warm, with ice cream, if desired.

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 1:35 pm

    Dink your turn.

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  • Dink LaneNovember 13, 2013 - 2:08 pm

    Every year, my sister, her family, me and my family go down to Loaves and Fishes and serve meals (Not Thanksgiving day... That's for showboating). Serving Meals is where you see the real problems they endure. My sister gave her suits to the Salvation Army's program to help homeless "Dress for Success"...... I also give a monthly donation to ED Food Bank.... I did have a homeless vet up here on the Divide, but no work up here. Got him connected with the Disabled Vets Program in Sac..... and what have you done "freemason"? All the Freemasons I know do some kind of charity work.... Hum?

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 1:45 pm

    Oh and Fran I don't make speechs......yet!

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 13, 2013 - 2:22 pm

    Freemason..my apology...usually people give me big speeches about how to behave...because of my background--I created a place called "Franland"...so I just go there during lectures. Or lately I just tell people I dont care....lolol...depends if I have ever told them how to behave. we have a couple freemasons in my family...normally they dont post :)

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 2:34 pm

    No need to Fran your heart is in the right place. :-)

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 3:05 pm

    Any thoughts about the armory? It would be a good time to talk about solutions.

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 3:09 pm

    Dink that was not the question a simple "none" would have suffice

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 3:32 pm

    So dink your anecdotes of having helped in the past are all you have to offer I'm saving mine until you answer the question. How many homeless people do you or members of your family or church have living with them. It's a very simple question.

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  • Dink LaneNovember 13, 2013 - 3:57 pm

    "How many homeless people do you..have living with" me? They wouldn't be homeless.... With the church? None.... I've helped my sons, and my sister's kids .... so no one in my family his homeless..... I had an Alcoholic Uncle who lived on "Two-Street" in Sacramento before Interstate 5 was built.... He used to work as a migrant farmer up and down the state... No home, just a flop house...

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  • ughNovember 13, 2013 - 4:38 pm

    Did dink or Fran go rescue the homeless and take them to your property today? Or even get another side of the story? And yes dink, I've dealt with the mentally ill in my family. Good for you for serving food ( not on thanksgiving). I on the other hand have brought firewood to them, fed them, brought them blankets, hold onto your shorts for this one, let a homeless person sleep in my garage. Why? Because I felt it was the right thing to do. Guess what I got in return? Lying (about alcohol), a mess, smell, annoying conversations about how the world owes them, and they even tried bringing their buddies. It lasted a week. But I tried. I still volunteer, help with what I can, and keep informed on what's going on. This is life experience, not reading a damn book or referencing a website which means nothing to me. And judging on how many times you post on mountain democrat, your life experience jar isn't very full.

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 13, 2013 - 4:49 pm

    ugh..." And judging on how many times you post on mountain democrat, your life experience jar isn't very full." Life experiences.. lololol...mine is pretty full. As far as volunteering...I dont place a number value on that...so you may be right...I could do more.

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  • MorrisNovember 13, 2013 - 5:02 pm

    You are class personified Fran.

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 5:19 pm

    So again dink the answer is "none" so instead of lecturing people that are directly affected by the local homeless population perhaps you should. And maybe your friends and family and church should too and I don't mean volunteering when you feel like it to soothe your ego I mean TODAY. If you do you will set an expample for everyone and soon there will be no more homelessness.

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  • ughNovember 13, 2013 - 6:13 pm

    Freemason might be onto something!

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 6:41 pm

    And dink here is how I have been volunteering since becoming a home owner on smithflat rd. Installing motion detectors on my house so that there are no hiding places. Picking up trash in front of my house that someone left after upending my recycle bin to get the aluminum cans at the bottom so they can get CASH for booze and drugs at the conviently located recycle center and liquour store.Watching my elderly neighbors recently burglarized houses and going to meetings at the grange with PPD for advice. Staring down aggresive panhandlers at the store. Walking fast to my car so they don't follow me and ask me for a ride. It's the guy behind me offering to buy my grocerys with his EBT card for the rest of the cigarettes in my pack then go out side and talk on his smart phone. I could go on and on but to people who live here I would be preaching to the choir we have all been through it and hopefully it will change. I remember about three years ago there was a bar that was creating havoc on mainstreet and the businesses were in an uproar over the drunks and vandals. The bar owners and local patrons said that the problem was from outsiders not locals and that was probably true. That bar got shut down. Now we have close to 100% occupancy and family events every few months and shoppers any given weekend. Do you know where that bar went? Smith flat road. It has since thankfully closed. We want a safe quiet place to live in peace that's all.

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  • EvelynNovember 13, 2013 - 7:45 pm

    At last night's City Council meeting a member of Hangtown Haven's Board pointed out the unfairness of attributing increased crime and public nuisance behavior to Hangtown Haven residents. She specifically cited the impact of AB109, California's Public Safety Realignment Plan which provided for early the release of State prisoners , 70 sent to El Dorado County by June of 2012, and 147 by September 2013. From pg.11 of the report: "Public Safety Realignment will create a new population of clients who will be seeking services within our jails and local community. These offenders will have a high degree of collateral issues including a high incidence of untreated substance abuse." From pg. 12: "Offenders released from jail that are homeless and transportation‐less are most likely to re‐offend quickly." HERE

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  • ughNovember 13, 2013 - 7:52 pm

    Where's all the ignorant website references and history book comments? Maybe their visiting with their new guests from hh? One could only hope, but not probable. I'm happy for Broadway and smith flat that this is all coming to an end. Freemason, you forgot to inform these kind people about the new church they have in the lower parking lot of the Mexican restaurant! The finest of the homeless community gather there for who knows what, it's a shack building no large than 20x20. The cross made of sticks really kicks it off for me. Don't get me wrong, I love God and this beautiful earth we live on, but give me a f#@&ing break!

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  • Phil VeerkampNovember 13, 2013 - 7:58 pm

    ugh, do you think that Jesus would be ashamed of the humble church and stick cross?

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  • EvelynNovember 13, 2013 - 8:23 pm

    ugh: You "love god" -- people, not so much.

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 8:02 pm

    Evelynn I respectfully ask you the same question I asked dink and fran. And I will be right here waiting for your answer.

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  • EvelynNovember 13, 2013 - 8:17 pm

    freemason: (Since you're "respectfully" asking!!!) In the United States I've done nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. In South Africa I taught (volunteer) in squatter camps and did indeed have a young woman (who had been severely tormented by her spouse) and her 9-year old son come stay with me for a number of months. So what? By what right do you demand "credentials"?

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 8:17 pm

    Well said ugh so glad to hear something that is not just a lazey cut and paste or a link from people that have absolutely no idea what they are talking about It is no wonder that upper broadway has been skid row for all these years. Myself and my neighbors are already making plans to change that. HH is only the beginning. COUNT ON IT!

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  • EvelynNovember 13, 2013 - 8:20 pm

    freemason: I totally believe you when you say "Myself and my neighbors are already making plans to change that. HH is only the beginning. COUNT ON IT!" Now, may I "respectfully" ask how you happen to call yourself "freemason"? Is that because you are one?

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  • Phil VeerkampNovember 13, 2013 - 8:24 pm

    I believe he has not traveled.

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  • Phil VeerkampNovember 13, 2013 - 8:21 pm

    Freemason, allow to "butt in". Your summonsing of Evelyn for an answer to your "question" implies that Evelyn has been pontificating on HH. She has not. Therefore your question is idle, pointless and without merit. Look elsewhere for hypocrisy.

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 8:32 pm

    Evelynn I made no request regarding your immigration status.Your answer is NONE. Yet you find time to cut and paste an OPINION put forth by a HH committee member when you have "No skin in the game"? I do!

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  • Phil VeerkampNovember 13, 2013 - 8:39 pm

    PS - Your libel of Freemasonry is contemptible.

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  • EvelynNovember 13, 2013 - 8:44 pm

    Freemason: I'm not an immigrant. I did not answer as an immigrant. I answered your "respectful" question as an honest participant. And it would be worth your while to check out the link. The person I was referencing was providing information from the County of El Dorado, 2011 Public Safety Realignment Initial Implementation Plan. Presented by: El Dorado County Community Corrections Partnership. Peruse the 22 page document. Logically, releasing 147 prisoners into El Dorado County would have an impact. (I take it you were not at last night's meeting.)

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  • Phil VeerkampNovember 13, 2013 - 8:34 pm

    Freemason, Evelyn is 4th generation El Dorado County. ~~~ ESAD

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 8:39 pm

    I am free to build my home with the strongest material I can find and hand wringing and fingerpointing does nothing and while you are here Phil what are the plans for the armory once the B and G club move?

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  • EvelynNovember 13, 2013 - 8:50 pm

    freemason: Are you a Free Mason?

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  • EvelynNovember 13, 2013 - 8:52 pm

    Would it be correct to say that you believe someone here is the repository of answers to all your questions about plans for El Dorado County?

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  • Phil VeerkampNovember 13, 2013 - 8:50 pm

    Alex, my answer: WHAT IS A SOUP KITCHEN?

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  • EvelynNovember 13, 2013 - 8:59 pm

    freemason says: "I will be right here waiting for your answer" but might be inconvenienced if asked to answer anything himself.

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  • Phil VeerkampNovember 13, 2013 - 9:01 pm

    He's working with his cypher ring to decode "ESAD"

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 9:10 pm

    Yes I was evelynn and at the BOS meeting regarding the contemptable open ended non decision regarding perks ct by said BOS. As far as travel I have lived and worked in the worst ghettos that oakland has to offer and have seen entire blocks turned into warzones overnight. Drivebys dead bodies pimps and prostitutes drugaddicts and dealers. An they all seem to have one thing in common well meaning people who want to save them with a handout. That's why I live here. Sorry I can't reply directly my cheap chinese tablet won't let me. Surprised?

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 9:19 pm

    Phil I will stop impersonating a freemason when you stop impersonating a county supervisor.

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  • Phil VeerkampNovember 13, 2013 - 9:23 pm

    I am not, have not, nor will I impersonate Cousin Brian. Can you point to a comment of mine that supports your false assertion?

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  • Phil VeerkampNovember 13, 2013 - 9:19 pm

    Well, I suppose that if it is common and OK for Latinos to name baby boys, Jesus then it's OK for you to go by the handle of freemason . . . even though you obviously are not. It is a minor league insult to the craft.

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  • EvelynNovember 13, 2013 - 9:22 pm

    I hate to say it, but I actually believe "freemason" is a Free Mason.

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  • EvelynNovember 13, 2013 - 9:25 pm

    This unfortunate conversation has taken on a life of its own. And to think it began by my quoting someone from last night's meeting who was referencing an official document relevant to Chief Heller's report. I'm now exiting.

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 9:30 pm

    Forgive me for the brian confusion but the resemblance is uncanny

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  • Phil VeerkampNovember 13, 2013 - 9:38 pm

    Not really. I'm older, wiser, and oh so much better looking . . . drop dead hunky handsome. Poor Brian does the best he can with meager assets. (cuzn, apology is in the mail.)

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 9:45 pm

    Goodnight Phil and Evelynn I have to turn on the scanner and check edso .org 48 hour arrests to see tomorrows line up. freemason

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  • freemasonNovember 13, 2013 - 9:50 pm

    Good one Phil, Brian will get over it hehe maybe not.

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  • MorrisNovember 13, 2013 - 11:19 pm

    Ummm, Ugh....Do you think the ORIGINAL cross was made out of copper with perhaps some accents if ivory and gold? Maybe some nice LED backlighting such as the ones off of 65 all awash in their purple hue? Those sticks ain't much - I'll spot ya that - but it's the thought that counts.

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  • PollockerNovember 14, 2013 - 8:07 am

    I live in PP, and not near the bars on Pony Express with the vagrants and the recent burglaries. I recently gave away a piece of equipment. The recipient looked at my lot and said, "You could put 5 trailers on here for the homeless." (He is a former homeless drunk and is now an advocate.) Really? I worked for 50 years for this property. I pay tens of thousands of dollars in taxes every year and employ several people. I provide several rentals at a way-under-market rate. I also donate several thousand in cash to charities every year, deliver food to the poor, sponsor toy drives, visit the elderly, etc.. But that's not enough, apparently. As a non-drunk, tax-paying citizen, I have to side with the homeowners in the HH area. Ever walk down Broadway? Take a look at the way that area has transitioned in the past 2 years. I dare you to go to Starbucks in the morning. And no, Morris, I don't think they should be put to sleep. How crass and rude to be so extreme. But providing people everything forever does not help them. Helping them temporarily, yes. And yes, whether or not you want to believe it, most poverty among adults (I am not referring to teenagers) is a lifestyle choice. Some people do have a lousy start in life. I certainly did, with 2 drunk parents. But you can make a decision to get out. Go to school at night, work days. Don't have kids you can't feed. Don't drink, smoke, or do drugs. Ever. And don't hang around losers. I am getting rather sick of the "You people with money don't do enough" mantra. When will it be enough? When everyone has a home and food and medical and dental care and a cell phone? And still not have to leave home at 7 a.m. to get to work, and then work all day?

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  • sik of the poorNovember 14, 2013 - 9:04 am

    pollicker I'm with you, buddy cause i'm so sik of all these poor people all over the place. ure a great guy donating all that money and stuff to charities and feeding the poor and whatnot but really all of us shud stop doing that because it just incourages them and they just keep coming bak for mor and before long this county wont be fit for foks like u n me.

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 14, 2013 - 8:28 am

    So if you are from up here...you are aware of the families with children--who lost everything when the mill closed...some just turned over their keys and left. Yesterday the food trunk came tyo Pollock...many young kids stood in the line with their parents. Seniors who are on fixed incomes talking softly with others. No one thinks you should personally save the world. I am sorry if you had a "bad" childhood--i am glad to see you survived...some dont. some of the homeless have children. Our big church tries its best to help find people to help those that come there...people who have been dropped off up here. Pollock Pnes raises money--and sends it down the hill (those groups know who they are.) Our seniors, vets, children need the money to stay here in our economy for awhile...so we can rebuild ourselves--in order to help others. Give money to the churches, schools,a great group up here is the Rotary. The Community Center (run by volunteers only) will be having a free Thanksgiving meal--come meet a wide variety of people. Stand in a bread line and just talk to a senior that has worked all their lives...and are on fixed incomes. Different point of views. Your thoughts are fine--they belong to you. when I first came up here 20+ years ago--there was a homeless problem in Sac...I asked my grandfather if we could invite some (we were on an acre and a half) He said "H*ll no." I didnt understand--but I didnt love him less..

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  • cookie65November 14, 2013 - 8:40 am

    Phil, from Cuisinart to toaster oven. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/11/12/Oops-Solar-Energy-Plants-are-Killing-Rare-birds

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  • poverty is a lifestyle choiceNovember 14, 2013 - 8:45 am

    Millions of us are finding that having a job to go to and children with full stomachs and roofs over our heads and not being chased away by angry people or hunted by the police is very yesteryear and we are choosing poverty as a lifestyle; if you haven't tried it you don't know what you're missing.

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 14, 2013 - 8:54 am

    I hope with all my heart that people who want to come to this county to visit (because im one that would check the local papers) or move here...see these comments in order to decide if they want to bring up the families or just visit such a loving community. Equating people to starving animals--nice (rolling eyeballs.) Humanity: hu·man·i·ty (h)yo͞oˈmanitē/Submit noun 1. the human race; human beings collectively. "appalling crimes against humanity" synonyms: humankind, mankind, man, people, human beings, humans, the human race, mortals; More the fact or condition of being human; human nature. "music is the universal language with which we can express our common humanity" synonyms: human nature, humanness, mortality More 2. humaneness; benevolence. "he praised them for their standards of humanity, care, and dignity"

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 14, 2013 - 9:07 am

    What Animals Can Teach Us About Being Better Human Beings The Huffington Post | By Carolyn Gregoire Posted: 11/12/2013 3:32 pm EST http://tinyurl.com/nhtka6r "They exhibit signs of empathy and compassion."

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 14, 2013 - 9:13 am

    http://homelessnesslaw.wordpress.com/ for anyone who would like to sue because their "human" rights are being violated. You can start here.

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 14, 2013 - 9:15 am

    or here...the last one really went into tenants rights--which for some are really being abused...remember the investor that bought the troll house--still hasnt given those young people their depsoit back yet.....http://tinyurl.com/mnstlgp Lawyers Working to End Homelessness american Bar Association.

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 14, 2013 - 9:16 am

    Housing Judgement: http://www.nhlp.org/help

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 14, 2013 - 9:19 am

    Brad Pitts group to help the homeless...oh wait--isnt he also part of the group that is going to paint Downtown Placerville? Yep http://tinyurl.com/n2lt7d5 Homelessness Prevention: A National Economic Stimulus, A Whitepaper

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 14, 2013 - 9:27 am

    http://www.looktothestars.org/cause/homelessness Homelessness Celebrity campaigners & charities POWERFUL group of people...doesnt the film industry spend money here in El dorado County? Yep. Interesting. Everyone have a lovely morning...going out to help my community.

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  • James E.November 14, 2013 - 9:41 am

    Why don't we stop being nice about the homeless and the poor and old. Our first consideration must be the strength of the Homeland -- these non-producers are dragging down us down and that cannot be tolerated. They produce nothing and drain our resources. Homeland -- a term right out of Germany in the 1930s. But, I digress. Round them up and put them in FEMA camps. Make them work at some activity in the camps with profits to the State. The State will be strengthen by their absence from our view and the profits they will generate. Stop being nice, you know helping them in any way only makes them dependent. When you see them on upper Broadway and other locations, look at them and know they should be confined in a FEMA camp. Hail to the State!

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  • cookie65November 14, 2013 - 9:48 am

    James, great idea. Lets pass healthcare legislation that leads to culling out all those who can't justify the cost of their life preserving medical treatment. Tell grandma to take a pain pill.

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  • EvelynNovember 14, 2013 - 11:06 am

    James: Vaterland / Homeland = interesting theme. Indirectly, you've reminded me of the extraordinary profitability of privately owned prisons, in our state and all around the country. Perhaps El Dorado County will eventually have one of its own. But what accounts for our world record-beating prison population? We pride ourselves on being the Greatest This and That. Well, add a notch to our Silver Pride Belt. No country in the world beats us for numbers of people incarcerated. Meanwhile . . . Holland is closing 19 prisons; Sweden recently closed four.

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  • James E.November 14, 2013 - 10:02 am

    Cookie I knew you would like my idea and even take it a step further -- Dr. Mengele.

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  • James E.November 14, 2013 - 10:14 am

    Breaking News: The president will be announcing that those with crappy insurance who want to keep their crappy insurance can keep their crappy insurance for the next year.

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  • R.j. CarterNovember 14, 2013 - 10:27 am

    TRANSLATION OF BREAKING NEWS WITHOUT LIBERAL SPIN;.... The president announced today that he is doing everything he can to save the jobs of those Dems in Red sates by saying he's sorry to everyone who's been screwed by Obama Care.........

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  • James E.November 14, 2013 - 10:39 am

    R.J., whatever it takes.

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  • James E.November 14, 2013 - 10:44 am

    And, next year when those who regain their crappy insurance ($18.75 a month with a cap of $300) are found to have stage 4 colon cancer, they will have sealed their own fate. But, they will have regained their insurance freedom and freedom is where it is at.

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  • cookie65November 14, 2013 - 10:49 am

    James, what is more valuable than freedom?

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 14, 2013 - 10:49 am

    GoogleTransparency Report Like other technology and communications companies, Google regularly receives requests from government agencies and courts around the world to remove content from our services or to review such content to determine if it should be removed for inconsistency with a product's community policies. http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/government/ start uploading yours favorites...rename them...and you have your own library :) I know I do :)

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  • cookie65November 14, 2013 - 11:07 am

    Fran, google has been scrubbing unfavorable results to searches for years. They do it heavily with regards to the global warming fraud and virtually everything that undermines the overall destruction caused by leftist ideology. Selective and omission journalism is how they keep people dependable, useful idiots. Promoting what they want people to believe and excluding things they don't want them informed about. It is what makes seeing what braindead leftist think passes for educated and informed so entertaining. A school of fish. Simultaneously reaching the identical conclusions and reactions to every subject without ever questioning why.

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 14, 2013 - 10:54 am

    Facebook Releases First Transparency Report http://mashable.com/2013/08/27/facebook-transparency-report/

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  • James E.November 14, 2013 - 11:01 am

    Cookie, freedom is good and those with crappy insurance will have their freedom, for good or bad.

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  • cookie65November 14, 2013 - 11:23 am

    James, "freedom is good"? That sounds like a diminishment. Not far down the road it will lead to "freedom is overrated". And from there we will have "freedom is suspect". Should we return to the days prior to the Civil war because "freedom isn't really all that it is cracked up to be"? It reminds by of something vern posted the other day he lifted from a DHS report that pretty much separated those who don't see freedom as something to negotiate with as being all part of some hategroup. The left has beat that drum like a rented mule for so long now it no longer has any meaning. I suspect you are implying the same thing.

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 14, 2013 - 11:03 am

    The Next Government Workforce The role of government is rapidly evolving. Building the workforce that will be needed requires new approaches. BY PATRICK IBARRA | OCTOBER 24, 2012 Governing Newsletterhttp://tinyurl.com/mwgkjj4

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 14, 2013 - 11:06 am

    Must be a different Patrick Ibarra

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  • James E.November 14, 2013 - 11:09 am

    Tomorrow, the House intended to vote for Americans keeping their crappy insurance. Today, the day before, the president announces a fix so American can keep their crappy insurance. So, the House gets what they want -- well, yes, sure, but they will now attack the president for giving them what they want. Tea/Republicans, the Party of NO.

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  • Dink LaneNovember 14, 2013 - 11:42 am

    James: Every vote the House has taken on AHC has been to .........PROTECT insurance companies...... Not one vote to help people have access..... Republicans=Corporate interest only

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  • cookie65November 14, 2013 - 12:18 pm

    Dink, is obama protecting the insurance companies with his proposal? According to your logic he is. The repubs didn't lie to America for 3 years, obama did. The party of blame. ocommycare SUCKS. There isn't any other way to spin it. Why are the leftists dims crying for a do-over dink?

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  • cookie65November 14, 2013 - 12:09 pm

    James the leftist dims are coming out of the woodwork and other places parasites congregate to say NO. NO to people being cancelled. NO to having this catastrophe chained around their partisan necks come election time. Any attempt to pin this on the repubs is beyond desperate.

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 14, 2013 - 11:13 am

    Cookie...being a gamer--I knew that...and one has to be careful with names...both Patricks were in the same list of articles--different people. researching can be fun...but you cant trust everything :(

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  • James E.November 14, 2013 - 11:30 am

    Now Cookie, don't put words in my mouth. You construct a strawman, attribute it to me, and then off you go roaring down a road of your own construction. But, as always, you are our own Rush and you could make millions if only you could get on at KFBK. Send them a demo tape and see what develops. And, if you are successful I can say I knew Cookie when.

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  • R.j. CarterNovember 14, 2013 - 11:56 am

    Fives years of leftest bungling, lies and broken promises, now the Presidents signature legislation is unraveling, creating a mess for the entire Country and guess who the Lib's are trying to blame it on?? .....Republicans....ROTFLMAO!!!....

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  • James E.November 14, 2013 - 11:59 am

    Evelyn, if prisons are a profit center then they must be filled.

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  • James E.November 14, 2013 - 12:02 pm

    R.J., I agree with you. The Tea/Republicans are without sin. Never has a group been more Christ like. But, know this, if they like Obama, the will be head over heels in love with Hillary.

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  • James E.November 14, 2013 - 12:07 pm

    R.J., the 'mess' is with the 5% that have crappy insurance. Now, they can keep their crappy insurance allowing the ACA to proceed. And, why are you and others unhappy with the ACA? It's the Republican plan proposed by Republicans. Well, until the Democrats took it up and now the Tea/Republicans are insane with anger that it is going to succeed to the credit of the Democrats. So, all I can say is suck it up and get in the ACA truck.

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  • James E.November 14, 2013 - 12:12 pm

    Cookie, we will see who gets blamed in the end.

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  • cookie65November 14, 2013 - 12:24 pm

    The Germans have a word for what I have been experiencing watching the half-wit left deal with this abortion they passed out of pure ideological arrogance. You could also throw in all the lemmings who are discovering the reality of leftism thru a cancellation slip. Schadenfreude

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  • cookie65November 14, 2013 - 12:38 pm

    This is Shadenfreude. http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/11/08/colorado-woman-who-championed-obamacare-loses-insurance-plan/

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  • James E.November 14, 2013 - 1:06 pm

    Gosh Cookie, now she can have it back.

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  • cookie65November 14, 2013 - 2:00 pm

    James, she may get to have it back but at a higher rate. And by who's authority was she told it wasn't good enough?

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  • Tom GibneyNovember 14, 2013 - 1:10 pm

    Ich liebe mein vaterland! Ich liebe mein Uber Fuher Vo ist mein beir? Everybody sing with me ! (to the tune of 'My country tis of thee...and pardon my German) Let us sing and rejoice as we march into DC! Salutations to the anointed one and his Democrats. There is nothing to fear we shall all be saved. Let there be no conservatives or opposing views! God Bless the Dink Lanes and the Longhofers God Bless the Garons! for surely they can save us and help reeducate the masses to conform with the one true leader Our beloved savior OBAMA!

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  • James E.November 14, 2013 - 1:18 pm

    Tom, in the spirit of your comment you don't mean beloved savior, you mean "Mein Leader!"

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  • cookie65November 14, 2013 - 2:05 pm

    Tom Gibney, here are little kids singing the praises of obama. Don't watch it if you possess a gag reflex. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gtfizIbBDI

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  • Tom GibneyNovember 14, 2013 - 3:14 pm

    Yes I recall in his first year...just like the children singing for Castro or the Fuhrer...

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  • James E.November 14, 2013 - 2:15 pm

    Cookie, by whose authority? The law. OK, will be off for awhile -- be back later.

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  • Fran DuchampNovember 14, 2013 - 9:44 pm

    ugh...Im a renter under contract...cant have any other people than whats listed. Ive lived here seven years and respect my landlord. But I found people to help--http://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_services/homelessness_poverty.html apparently they take homelessness as seriously as ADA issues.

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