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EDITOR:
On Aug. 31, Chris Daley wrote a column about the national debt. It is difficult to determine his main point or points. Is it that we could have avoided the current debt or that it will continue to rise under Romney?
Most people’s concern about the debt is the burden it will place on our “grandkids.” Neither political party expresses a concern about the burden on ourselves, i.e., the drag on our current Federal budget. The cost of “debt servicing,” that is, the interest paid on the borrowed funds, is never mentioned.
This amount varies with the interest rate but is now in the neighborhood of $400 billion. If we borrow $1.2 trillion per year about one-third of this amount is borrowed just to pay the accrued interest. Currently our debt is $16 trillion and is projected to grow by $5 trillion in the next four years under the current economy. If so, interest payments will increase by about one-third.
Will a family or country which takes on more debt to pay off interest on an increasing debt long survive?
HARRY HOPKINS
Camino
The Mountain Democrat does not necessarily condone the comments here, nor does it review every post. Read our full policy
TerrySeptember 14, 2012 - 9:29 pm
Harry, the answer to your question is that we cannot survive as a free democratic republic if we continue on this borrow and spend path. We need to take immediate steps to cut spending and increase the domestic economy which will raise revenues. For those that did not live through or do not remember the late '70s and early '80s, we had significant inflation with double digit interest rates. Ultimately, the relative value of the national debt declined but at the cost of significantly higher interest and a significant loss of value in individual savings. The term that was used at the time was stagflation. We had a stagnant economy with inflating currency. Harry, keep pressing for fiscal sanity.
Paddy O'furnitureSeptember 15, 2012 - 9:01 am
Excellent points Harry. Anyone who is not alarmed and DEEPLY concerned about our current financial condition is asleep. The USG's creditworthiness was downgraded again yesterday-this time by Egan Jones. Anybody paying attention here? The only thing missing from this particular discussion is input from our local lefties who no doubt read this letter, but declined to respond. Obama has done more damage to our economy than any of us who have been paying attention the last 4 years can believe. THIS is indisputable. And many of the same people who put him in office will attempt to do it again. Absolutely shameful. I have a feeling that if the Communist in Chief is reelected and things go completely off the rails, these oafs will be peeling their Obama 2012 bumper stickers off like crazy so as to avoid being identified as the "irresponsible" parties. The question "are you better off than you were four years ago" will be answered differently by different people. Most are clearly not. Another indisputable point. Worse still, few seem to be asking "is the US economy better than it was four years ago?" You would have to be a strong candidate for a frontal lobotomy to answer in the affirmative.
alarmed & concernedSeptember 15, 2012 - 9:21 am
1. No, I'm not better off than 4 years ago. 2. It's not really Obama's fault. Mainly he's just the power brokers' public face. 3. The November elections will leave the power brokers in place. 4. On Thursday the Fed announced QE3. 5. Regardless of who is elected, I do not expect to be better off.
James E.September 15, 2012 - 10:29 am
Mr. O'furniture, give us specific examples how President Obama has damaged our economy over the past four years. Also, define Communist and specific examples why the President is a Communist. Further, you state that most people are not better off than they were four years ago. Give specific information as to how you have reached the conclusion of 'most.' We have approximately 313 million citizens -- have you have talked to 157 million of them who have certified they are worse off? In your reply, please do not use general talking points -- be specific as you indicate your opinions are indisputable based on facts. I'm looking forward to your white paper in which you document your opinions on the state of the nation, vis-a-vis Communists and the economy. P.S. I don't do bumper stickers, so I won't have anything to peel off when President Obama is reelected. You guys might have had a good chance if you had nominated a decent candidate. I'm so glad you didn't.
James E.September 15, 2012 - 10:31 am
ADDED: Delete second 'have.'
Ken SteersSeptember 15, 2012 - 10:48 am
Agreed the debt has fundamentally changed America. Into what seems to be the real question. Republicans and Democrats are complicit in managing the spending problem. We have a problem with the discussion as far as if there is even a problem. Listen to the Republican leadership and their concerns for this "fiscal cliff" scenario. If they don't raise the debt ceiling there would be a 58 billion dollar cut military and a 58 billion dollar cut discretionary spending. For FY 2113. 166 billion dollars in a 3.2 trillion dollar budget. I don't know but Families have taken a 10% hit across the board on their income from $55,000 a year to $50,000 with fuel cost doubled and the collapse of the USD, It seems American's are forced off that cliff a long time ago. It's time for our politicians to jump in too. It might be their best option if you ask me.
TerrySeptember 15, 2012 - 11:12 am
We rolled the Repubs out of Congress in 2006 since they we not living up to their goals. What we got is: Source: US Department of Labor and the US General Accounting Office: FY 1992-FY 2000 US Unemployment Rate 5.21%** FY 2000- FY 2008 US Unemployment Rate 5.27%** FY 2008- FY 2011 US Unemployment Rate 9.36%** ** Adjusted for part time workers Source: US Department of the Interior/US Department of Land: FY 1992 – FY 2000 Applications for natural resource drilling increased 58%. FY 2000 – FY 2008 Applications for Natural resource drilling increased 118%. FY 2008 – FY 2011 Applications for Natural resource drilling decreased 36%. Source: US General Accounting Office FY 2008 US National Debt =9 Trillion Dollars FY 2011 US National Debt=15.566 Trillion Dollars Source: Standard and Poors Office of Management and Budget , US Bureau of Labor Statistics, Morgan Stanley Joint Committee on Taxation, and the US Census FY 2008 – FY 2001. US Sovereign Debt Downgrade…first time in US History Federal Spending 25% of GDP…highest since WWII. Budget Deficit 10% of GDP…highest since WWII. Federal Debt is 67% of GDP…highest since WWII. Employment is 58.1% of the total workforce…lowest since 1933. Long term unemployment of the total workforce 45.9%…highest since 1933. Increase in non-farm payroll 0.5% ….slowest job growth since WWII. Home ownership is 59.7 %…the lowest since 1965. Percentage of tax payers paying income tax 49%…lowest in US History. Government dependency 47%, defined as persons receiving one or more Federal Benefits payments….the highest in US history. Source: US Department of Health and Human Resources and the General Accounting Office: FY 1992 – FY 2000 Number of recipients of Food Stamps = 23 million. FY 2000 – FY 2008 Number of recipients of Food Stamps = 23.5 million. FY 2008 – FY 2011 Number of recipients of Food Stamps = 39.5 million. Source: US Bureau of Statistics Cabinet Appointments: Prior business experience beginning with T. Roosevelt through GWB…28% to a high of 68% (Eisenhower)….Obama cabinet appointments with prior business experience…6.2%.
Paddy O'furnitureSeptember 15, 2012 - 12:45 pm
Longwinded, I will let Terry's well documented response demonstrate how the economy has been damaged. All of this info is well known, well circulated, and also highly ignored, hence your request for specifics. If you people would pull your heads out of Obama's rear long enough to see the light of day, you'd already know these things. As far as Comrade Obama being a communist-I will humor you in a response even though this is all patent as well. A communist is a socialist with a rifle. Obama is clearly a socialist and again, if you were paying attention to what he DOES instead of what he says, that thrill up your leg would be a chill down your spine. You do your own homework to understand what so many of the rest of know-he does what socialist do. He is traveling the path of the socialists who have gone before him. Figure it our yourself. As far as the gun is concerned, communists have always restricted the rights of citizens to own guns, while expanding their own arsenals. Have you seen the data on how much hollow point ammo the DHS and other gov't agencies are purchasing? Hundreds of millions of rounds. Not ball ammo for practice, hollow points for maximum damage. Not rifle ammo for the military, handgun rounds for domestic policing. All the while, making tiny little incremental steps to infringe upon the second amendment right of the citizens. Look it up Longwinded. Do your own homework and find out who this joker is that you helped put in the white house. OBTW, demonize the republicans if you like; those who are paying attention also know they have been as complicit as the lefties in our fiscal state of affairs. We need someone not of the two parties and not beholden to the global banking interests (excludes both candidates) to step in and right the ship. Probably won't happen this go round. So you go ahead and vote for more of same. "Forward", "Hope and Change" and all that bull feces. Now run along and do something productive. I'm cutting firewood after lunch.
James E.September 15, 2012 - 1:30 pm
Mr. O'furniture, you make the vague charges and you want me to do the homework? I asked you for specifics, and your response is peppered with Tea/Republican talking points and is indicative of a high school freshman who would be given a grade of F. Enjoy the election in November.
Carol G.September 15, 2012 - 2:26 pm
Everyone know Liberals never admit being wrong. In their minds they can just debunk all indisputable and undeniable facts by calling them vague charges and Tea/Republican talking points. Then, to make their denial easier to sallow, they follow it up with their phoney "We've already won attitude". It's what they learn by watching MSNBC. Don't fall for it. Come November Obama's done and they know also, just won't admit it.
Ken SteersSeptember 15, 2012 - 3:32 pm
At this point and time it does no one any good to have a discussion with someone who would rather argue than to have a serious discussion regarding our fiscal situation. But to believe that President Obama is definitely going to lose is a mistake also. Terry's points are that Conservatives seem to be the only people worried by the debt crises. Fiscal Conservatives are a minority in the Republican Party. Many people, and they are now in the majority, will vote Democrat because they are dependent on the government. But in reality even Jerry Brown is having to face the reality that our economy has changed and as an unabashed Progressive, surprisingly he's making some substantial budget cuts. Granted he is also trying to tax and fee us all to Idaho but actually I can't blame him for trying. It's in his genes.
Dink LaneSeptember 16, 2012 - 11:13 am
Danger, Danger --> National Debit rising...... Danger, Danger --> No-new-taxes..... Which is it? If the mortgage is due, do we quit our job or work less hours to cut down the mortgage?.... Look at the DEBIT guys..... some of it is Fighter planes......some of it is nuclear subs.... to fight who? Our Military Budget is the LARGEST in the world.....we have contracts with 20% administrative costs to MOW LAWNS and WASH DISHES..... When I was in the military, we cleaned our own barracks...didn't pay contractors to do it for us.... $789 Billion a year to SUBCONTRACT to private contractors... (20% admin + 20% admin for sub-contract) ... The Debt is important to Republicans ONLY when they are OUT of office....
observerSeptember 16, 2012 - 12:11 pm
G.Town may be drain damaged, but the entire country is brain damaged when it comes to debt & military spending. Good points, Dink. ("To fight who?" Now that's a REALLY good question.)
TerrySeptember 16, 2012 - 2:52 pm
So Dirk, just cut all the defense spending. You are still $350B short of balancing the budget. As I said before, you could shut down the entire government except for SS, entitlements and debt service and still have a $10B deficit. So what are your serious suggestions for solving the problem? I have posted several. I have not seen a constructive response from you and your friends. Our credit rating was just downgraded again. That eventually will mean interest rates for treasuries will increase. Hence the deficit will increase. So instead of pointing fingers at others, let's all point the fingers at ourselves since we are the greedy ones asking for too much from government.
Dink LaneSeptember 16, 2012 - 3:40 pm
What is different in 1994 and 2007 to 09 with our economy? Did the "entitlements" grow by $789 Billion? No.... Bear Sterns, AIG, Washington Mutual, and Countrywide needed the Federal Reserve to Bail them out. Were these companies owned and operated by Middle Class workers? No.... What about the financial ties to a Oil Company that had NEVER done "subcontracting" before 2004 (Haliburton) and pulled in $489 million the first year in Sub-contracts alone (Def Dept Website) and more every year after that? ....... This call to end SS and Medicare is the greedy-NON-CHRISTIAN-Ayn Rand philosophy... of aristocratic lifestyle served by the poor... Read just three letters written by John Adams & Thomas Jefferson in the Summer of 1813.... and learn what they thought "Greedy Aristocrats" would do to this country... But then they had faith in the people and loved this country....more than their own pocketbooks.
TerrySeptember 16, 2012 - 7:38 pm
So Dirk, I take it we are in agreement that the tax codes should be rewritten to end loopholes, that Wall St. bailouts should end, GM should sink or swim on its own, and that subsidies (energy, ag, beer, you name it) should end. I assume you agree government should not be supporting/subsidizing businesses except by making a level and fair playing field for all. Good, but the budget still is not balanced. So what do you suggest we do next? Blame Bush and the Repubs some more. That’ll solve the problem. Should we wait for the inevitable crash and watch millions take to the streets like in Greece? Or would you like to suggest something positive? We can’t change history. We can change the future.
prime timeSeptember 18, 2012 - 6:09 pm
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