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EDITOR: For all of you diehard environmentalists, the following scientific proof about the pros and cons of dredging for gold through extensive research can be found at these Websites. All of the information that is stated is backed by government and environmental studies.
For your information, all of these studies were done with dredges in the river unlike the recent studies that Sierra Club and its associates tried to pass off as scientific studies (they did all of their testing with no actual dredging). So please read the findings that were not allowed to be used in the lawsuits that our friendly Sierra Club and associates are trying to push as accurate and scientifically performed. By the way, they have been issued grants (we paid for) to dredge for the mercury that we have been removing all along.
Find them here: westernminingalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Suction-Dredge-Facts-June-2012.pdf and waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/cwa401/docs/suctiondredge/comments/james_foley.pdf.
MARTIN SCHUMANN
Placerville
The Mountain Democrat does not necessarily condone the comments here, nor does it review every post. Read our full policy
James SmithFebruary 25, 2013 - 7:50 am
You are fighting a battle against liberal retards who don't care about science or the facts, they just care about promoting their illogical socialist agenda. Boycott the Sierra Club whenever possible, ie., companies that contribute to the Sierra Club such as REI. CARB and the SWRCB are Communist State Agencies that care nothing about real facts, real science or logic. They have an agenda which is basically to shut down everything and take away your personal freedoms.
cookie65February 25, 2013 - 12:38 pm
^^^^^^ what he said ^^^^^^
DB SmithFebruary 25, 2013 - 1:58 pm
Thank you for you letter Martin! This is not spoke about enough. I have a life long friend that lives in Sonora that has been basically shut down from a love of his weekend and holiday activity of mining. In the early 70's my buddy had a secret hot tip on where a lot of gold was. So him and I took diving lessons from one very hot chick to get certified so that we could rent the gear and safely dive and get rich. We got certified down in Monterey Bay and then were off and ready to get rich. The gold tip was located in Redding. We went, rented the gear, jumped in the very, very cold water and could not see our stupid hands in front of our faces because the current was so damn fast. We still had a fantastic and fun time and dove other places. Personally, I never caught the gold bug really bad, but to this day my buddy and a lot of others that thoroughly enjoy the activity and are now in their elder years cannot go out and enjoy one of their favorite pastimes. What the HELL!!!
MartinFebruary 25, 2013 - 2:27 pm
DB I am also a avid dredger, I started back in the early 60s that is when I got the gold bug but before I could really get involved I got a draft notice, being the patriot that I am I joined the Army and spent 2 years in Vietnam fighting for what I thought was our freedom from oppression. When I got out of the service I married a beautiful young lady that lived in Ohio. I started a business building new homes and did this for 15 years until I had finely had it with Ohio weather, talked my wife into moving out here where my parents lived and started building out here; in between jobs I started dredging and found it most enjoyable and profitable. 1989 I decided to do it on a full time scale, I found me a great partner and we did just that and did very well until they (EPA and special interest) decided that we could only do it for 5.5 months out of the year that put an end to that. My partner and I started up a small mfg business and worked our dredging in as a pastime not because we wanted it that way but our environmental friends thought that it was best for us. Finely retired and found a great spot to dredge, I lived my whole life dreaming about the day that I could do this even though it was only for part of the year, we had invested thousands of dollars and was proud of the equipment that we custom built for perusing our dreams and within one year they put the moratorium on dredging instead of doing another EIR to see if we were damaging anything they just stopped us from dredging. As M. Schumann said they had done EIR’s in the past that showed we harmed nothing so why would they put a moratorium on it unless it was just because they don’t like dredgers.
chrispytahoeFebruary 25, 2013 - 3:26 pm
I too am an avid gold prospector. Dredging damages the environment however. Period. http://californiawaterblog.com/2011/06/17/suction-dredging-is-bad-for-fish/ A history of gold mining in California destroyed the delta and the river ecosystem. But hey, its worth the $ right? I mean, protecting the environment is nothing but a liberal socialist conspiracy. And when they start fracking under the central valley's agricultural fields, you dingbats will have no problem eating the produce huh? I for one am glad you old time idiots are dying off.
Martin SchumannFebruary 25, 2013 - 4:47 pm
None of the mentioned stories are actual scientific studies. I will bet you never saw a dredge in your life; you are so full of BS especially if you think that the dredging that we do is what put the silt in the delta. LOL you are an idiot.
cookie65February 25, 2013 - 3:42 pm
Chrispy, you ever see any of our little streams, creeks or rivers in winter time when they are flowing around 10x their regular capacity? Any idea how much material gets moved around compared to a few people suction dredging? You know what else Chrispy? Those conditions are actually good for the fish population just like dredging is because it stirs up all the sediments that are fish food. Do you know what rock worms are or helgramites? They thrive on sediments being disturbed and broken loose so they can move down river. Why do flatlanders come here and tell everyone how much they don't know?
cookie65February 25, 2013 - 3:46 pm
Something else Chrispy. The thing that has destroyed the delta is the ban on dredging. It is now so full of silt and sedimentary deposits it no longer has any capacity. It is full of scankey water because it can't flow.
DB SmithFebruary 25, 2013 - 3:50 pm
Martin, thank you for the background and a special THANK YOU for your military service sir. I wasn't drafted like a lot of my friends but then tried to join in 69 but was classified IIIA. I think like anything else there are probably some dredgers that may not be so polite to the environment and that is probably a motivating factor. But why should everyone else that respects the environment and the hobby be punished? Big friging Government!
DB SmithFebruary 25, 2013 - 3:53 pm
You're a little prick Chrispy! Old timers dying off huh? I'll be your Huckleberry you little punk. What park do you want to meet?
chrispytahoeFebruary 25, 2013 - 4:04 pm
Lol. Angry bluehairs. You are the flatlanders, I live in the mountains! Placer mining and dredging did destroy and choke out the delta. Heavy runoff is NOT the same as dredging bottom material to the bedrock. I have been mining the foothills for 22 years now. I can admit that dredging is harmfull, cause I have seen its effects first hand. Anytime DB. I'm 6-1 and 235 pounds of mountain man strong. Bring it old timer!
Martin SchumannFebruary 25, 2013 - 5:04 pm
I didn't know they stacked it that high
DB SmithFebruary 25, 2013 - 4:17 pm
Ohhhh I'm soooo scared now Chrispy. So what punk-I'm 5/11 + 185. The original question I had for your punk a** if you can remember was...what park! Just think, maybe you can quicken your desire for an old timer to expire. Can you back up your mouth smart as**??? Your actually a frigin joke dude! You comment on Placerville vistors and you're talking eliminating the elderly. If anything needs eliminating it would be things like you.
cookie65February 25, 2013 - 4:30 pm
Chrispy, where did the bottom material come from you freeeeekin moron? It came from upsteam. Where did all the sedimentaty deposits in the entire central valley come from? They came from the mountains. Our river system has moved more sediment (harmful according to you) than all of the gold miner on earth could move. Why do you think the central valley is full of fertile soil? Because of thousands of years of overflowing rivers... long before global warming was the cause of floods. Everytime I hear some pinhead leftist telling us we are harming the environment I wonder if they are completely braindead. They cringe over oil... guess what the earth is full of it.. the cringe over coal.. guess what the earth is full of it.... the cringe over natural gas.. guess what the earth is full of it.... we didn't cause it to exist, it was already here..
cookie65February 25, 2013 - 4:32 pm
DB, I am shorter than both of you but I have a thousand yard reach.... LOL
DB SmithFebruary 25, 2013 - 4:33 pm
Chrisp! I'm talking to ya. If your afraid just say so. I've got young grandkids half your size that have lived in these hills all their lives that could teach you a thing or two about hunting, fishing, survival and how to...... Believe me!
DB SmithFebruary 25, 2013 - 4:35 pm
Cookie.:)
chrispytahoeFebruary 25, 2013 - 4:37 pm
I have a life long friend that lives in RENO that has been basically shut down from a love of his weekend and holiday activity of VISITING BROTHELS. In the early 70's my buddy had a secret hot tip on where a lot of ACTION was. So him and I took SEX lessons from one very hot chick to get EXPIERIENCE so that we could USE the gear and safely dive and get LAID. Then were off and ready to get LAID. The tip was located in Redding. We could not see our stupid hands in front of our faces because the CHICK was so damn fast. We still had a fantastic and fun time and dove other places. Personally, I never caught the A bug really bad, but to this day my buddy and a lot of others that thoroughly enjoy the activity and are now in their elder years cannot go out and enjoy one of their favorite pastimes. What the HELL!!! ROTFLMAO!
DB SmithFebruary 25, 2013 - 4:45 pm
Oh what a pathetic grasping dip wad.
chrispytahoeFebruary 25, 2013 - 4:51 pm
Sorry DB cant hear ya short 185 lb a$$ yellin from down there. I just wrestle my bothers kids instead, I require a challenge little man. crumblecookie, sigh. It is hard to draw pictures in a blog. Natural runoff since the Sierra Nevada underwent the Batholithic upheaval did actually create the delta itself. However, accelerated hydraulic mining pushed so much material so fast, it plugged up the estuaries; natures natural filter. Much has been written and studied on the subject, here is a quick read:crumblecookie, sigh. It is hard to draw pictures in a blog. Natural runoff since the Sierra Nevada underwent the Batholithic upheaval did actually create the delta itself. However, accelerated hydraulic mining pushed so much material so fast, it plugged up the estuaries; natures natural filter. Here is a quick read: http://www.valcomnews.com/?p=9787
Martin SchumannFebruary 25, 2013 - 5:25 pm
What does that have to do with dredging??
DB SmithFebruary 25, 2013 - 4:56 pm
bla bla bla. Chicken ****!
DB SmithFebruary 25, 2013 - 4:59 pm
Damn it! It didn't let me send my last one. BLAA, BLLAAA, BLLLAAAA you Chicken sh*t!
MartinFebruary 25, 2013 - 5:01 pm
Chrispytahoe! you are an idiot, you have no idea how stupid you sound? Its either you are a profound lire or just stupid whichever the case may be. Question! Do you pee the bed? Better yet are you potty trained?
DB SmithFebruary 25, 2013 - 5:03 pm
Chrisp! If you do a little a** kissin and apologize about the elderly thing I just might leave you alone for just a little while.
chrispytahoeFebruary 25, 2013 - 5:08 pm
Martin, have used and seen plenty of em. Of course the pea shooter dredges that you operate (illegal now?) do not dump sediment into the delta. But they do disturb fish habitat, most notably the eggs. I do not support a ban on dredging, just in certain area during certain times of the year. And we do need good science to facilitate this. Why do so many of you hate science?
MartinFebruary 25, 2013 - 5:30 pm
Friend you don't know what a dredge is and you for sure don't know the size of mine; I have been mining longer than you are old. you sound as if you don't know what dredging really is for sure you don't know what it does.
chrispytahoeFebruary 25, 2013 - 5:12 pm
DB, I am sorry I got you riled up. Meant no offence. I am sure we could have beers and a few laughs anytime. Martin. Christ. Try spell check.
DB SmithFebruary 25, 2013 - 5:16 pm
I apologize to the rest of this forum and I am now done with this chickensh*t Chrisp.
cookie65February 25, 2013 - 5:42 pm
Chrispy, (perhaps a reference to your brain) back in the 80's the end of Iron Mountain slid into the American river around Kyburz. It blocked the entire river and burried Hwy 50. All of that landslide eventually got carried down river. It even diverted the river. For thousands of years we have had natural lightening caused forest fires which almost always lead to landslides that end up in some river and get carried down stream. Besides fires, natual erosion has been causing landslides and mud slides here for as long as there have been mountains. History did not begin the day you were born and it did not begin with a few dozen years of gold rush mining. Placer mining in this region has been a tiny fraction of the sedimentary process. Dredging has been an even tinier fraction. Sutters fort is still in its original location because the water used to come right up to the fort. It has been diverted over the years to build various parts of the city. The Sacramento river which flows from Shasta has been carrying sediment into the valley floor long before any environmentalist came here to tell us our activities were harming the environment.
DB SmithFebruary 25, 2013 - 5:57 pm
Cookie. I had to walk away but then came back and saw your post. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
cookie65February 25, 2013 - 6:20 pm
DB, over the years I have found nutjobs like chrispy (and I have known more than my fair share) are easy as falling off a log to indoctinate and nearly impossible to educate.