Friday, April 18, 2014
PLACERVILLE, CALIFORNIA
99 CENTS

Supervisor Nutting

EDITOR:

Like many others in El Dorado County, I supported Ray Nutting for County Supervisor in 2012. Ray convinced me he was the best candidate for this elected position, because he was heavily active in the community for many years, and he had a servant’s heart for the citizens in this county. I have come to realize that this dedication is not derived from any source of humility, but rather in Mr. Nutting’s dedication to enrich himself financially.

Let me be clear in a way that has not been clear in this newspaper. Supervisor Nutting has been called dishonest by the county Grand Jury, the county Auditor-Controller, the county District Attorney, the State Attorney General’s Office and the Fair Political Practices Commission. The Grand Jury indicted him for perjury. The Auditor-Controller said he submitted a “bogus claim” to the state. The District Attorney charged him with perjury, the State Attorney General’s Office is prosecuting him for perjury and the Fair Political Practices Commission described his defense as being deceptive.

Enough is enough. For once, Mr. Nutting, it’s not about you. Let it not be about enriching yourself, and do the right thing for the people you were elected to represent.

You were willing to have no voice in regards to public housing for Supervisorial District 2 to personally make $1,400 a month in rent from the government for your own property. Please, for the well-being of El Dorado County, take one step further and give up all votes until your legal troubles have been resolved.

TODD WHITE
Rescue

Letters to the Editor

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Discussion | 125 comments

  • Judith MathatAugust 13, 2013 - 12:28 pm

    MPG. vs. VIP. Some people just never learn to see the forest for the trees. Here today on the Oregon Coast the forests are at least 200ft thick before the clear cuts are able to be started and one never sees the clear cuts until they get off the road well traveled.

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  • 1036-FrankAugust 13, 2013 - 4:04 pm

    I second the motion, and further he should resign now before he leaves in handcuffs to prison. His gang are all going to see what dishonesty, corruption, and law breaking will get them. A majority of people have no confidence in Nuttin anymore, aren't buying his excuses and faked letters and denials and are ready for a new election for his replacement.

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  • Kirk MacKenzieAugust 13, 2013 - 4:12 pm

    Few politicians innocent WRT "dishonesty, corruption, and law breaking". Mr Nutting was also guilty of indicating he would vote for lower density developments like San Stino.

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  • EvelynAugust 13, 2013 - 4:42 pm

    Frank: Are you a candidate waiting in the wings?

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  • 1036-FrankAugust 13, 2013 - 5:14 pm

    Evelyn; I don't live in district two currently, though I have lived in every district in the county at one time or another over these many years. My hope is that we see some honest people emerge for the coming replacement election who want to work for the people and get things done. I think some will step up to the plate and do it for the public service of their county.

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  • EvelynAugust 13, 2013 - 5:16 pm

    I am hoping the case goes to jury trial.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 13, 2013 - 6:05 pm

    1040 Frank...Im hoping that someone steps up in my district when Ms. Santiago terms out.--so far the candidates sound like Harper and her group. I do not believe in Advisory boards of self elected people who never step down...deciding for a whole...mostly because these groups manipulate "communities." Posting is showing this as well....some deciding what Ray should do--yet he hasnt gone to trial yet. But I guess everyone in this county went to law school...so why have a trail?

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 13, 2013 - 6:06 pm

    trial....darn...lolololol

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  • What's going on?August 16, 2013 - 6:39 am

    Mr Nutting is currently under indictment. He can not perform any of the duties as a representative of D-2. The Supervisor position is only a part time job. Yet he has decided to put all the important county business in limbo while his legal issues are played before all the citizens of this county. Currently he and his assistant can't even discuss the weather with county employees. Isn't it time for Mr Nutting to do the right thing and step down? If he is found innocent of the crimes he is charged with then he would be able to come back as the most powerful person in the entire county. At least then he could say after words that he put his constituents best interest ahead of his own. Mr Nutting please for the sake of the county and your reputation do the right thing.

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  • anonymousAugust 16, 2013 - 7:03 am

    What's going on with all these gutless comments from What's Going On and John Q and George Washington? Whatever happened to the old fashioned way of trying cases in court? Betcha Interested Parties are afraid the case won't go to trial so their best hope is poisoning the well of public opinion and they think nobody will notice. By the way, do the DA and her staff keep regular office hours or do they just work from home?

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  • cookie65August 16, 2013 - 7:32 am

    Frank, do you suppose Ray should get his day in court prior to you sentencing him? There seems to be no shortage of conductors on the Ray Nutting railroad. One thing that is unmistakable in all of this is the DA and others who have a bully pulpit and a political axe to grind have been extremely proactive in their determination to at least convict him in the court of public opinion. It reminds me of Dan Rather concluding "it was the seriousness of the charge" regardless of the fact that the charge was based on forged documents. I have always found OVER confidence to be a handicap of the ill-equipped.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 8:07 am

    Someone must remember the term"free society" " Nevertheless, the presumption of innocence is essential to the criminal process. The mere mention of the phrase presumed innocent keeps judges and juries focused on the ultimate issue at hand in a criminal case: whether the prosecution has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the alleged acts. The people of the United States have rejected the alternative to a presumption of innocence—a presumption of guilt—as being inquisitorial and contrary to the principles of a free society". http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Innocent+until+proven+guilty

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 8:09 am

    Morning cookie---it is actually the hot humid weather that really bothers me--my body swells--and that really activates the nerves burning. The cold makes the metal in my knees ache....but it is better than the burning.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 8:12 am

    Mr. White...I would like to think we are still a free society...where all people are Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. I hate to think you do not honor the higher courts sir.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 8:14 am

    " The people of the United States have rejected the alternative to a presumption of innocence—a presumption of guilt—as being inquisitorial and contrary to the principles of a free society".

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  • a citizenAugust 16, 2013 - 8:17 am

    Cookie 65 and Fran, Ray Nutting will receive due process. But be honest here. You two are claiming that the DA, Auditor, independent outside judge and the State Attorney General are prosecuting Ray Nutting purely for political purposes. And I think that you ladies are far more intelligent than that. The fact is that Mr Nutting can not currently perform the duties of Supervisor. He is engulfed in this quagmire of trying to defend himself and raise money to pay his attorney. He can't do that effectively, (raise money) while in office. Reference in point the $20,000.00 Doug Veerkamp loan. That is illegal. The Veerkamps are fine people and this action might now jeopardize their livelihood. I wish he would step aside for the time being so he could focus on defending his reputation. Common sense would prevail because he then could go to his friends in the community to legally raise money. He has proven that he is well loved and supported. This way all of us could get on with our daily lives.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 8:22 am

    Citizen--I have written many many times...before you were very rude the other day...I believe ALL people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Going against that and claiming someone should do something before their day in court--is very un American to me.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 8:24 am

    I believe The Veerkamps can answer for themselves.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 8:31 am

    I live in Pollock--we have three supervisors I dont believe Ive ever lived in such a tiny place that has so many supervisors. I would be interested who would step in--because THAT would affect lives. He has ever right to stay where he is...and he has the right under law to be considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Or people are going against "free society" principles. Other countries one person tries and judges...not here--we have a process...has every one forgotten that?

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 8:37 am

    What's up with a person posting under the name "anonymous" calling other people gutless? Pot, meet kettle... Regarding Ray having his day in court, that's what we all want, but he continues to delay. Why is that? Can anyone give me a legitimate reason why an innocent person would want to drag this out? Why would an innocent person plead the fifth in front of the Grand Jury? If you haven't done anything wrong, how would you incriminate yourself by answering questions? Also, if this is just local politicians with an ax to grind, why is the state's attorney general also prosecuting Ray? I haven't seen any explanation on that either. If anyone wants to step up and answer those questions, we're listening. Or do you want to just change the subject now...

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 8:40 am

    Raising money...I think it is horrible that a person who has lived in an area for as long as he has--to be harassed when asking friends and family for help. Even if I didnt know him...I would be horrified. What is the matter with people. So you agree with isolating someone who has yet had their day in court...how American. I still believe that it is Rays choice to do what he feels is right. I am now concerned with the lack of patience some are showing..local.government decisions should not be rushed. Do you know something we dont? Did we promise yet a another funding opportunity that will run out if we do not do it NOW. He doesnt vote on "budget" issues, he removed himself. So he is not affecting money issues. How is he affecting your life citizen?

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  • Gerald LillpopAugust 16, 2013 - 8:40 am

    Let's let a court decide on Supervisor Nutting's guilt or innocence. It is easy to cast aspersions and sling mud from the comfort of your own home but let's let the facts come out in court. If Supervisor Nutting is found guilty then so be it but until all of that facts come out it is futile to try and determine what if anything Supervisor Nutting has done wrong.

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  • a citizenAugust 16, 2013 - 8:40 am

    Fran this is the first time I've posted

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 8:42 am

    a citizen...I am sorry then...citizen was rude. If people would use their names...it would be easier.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 8:44 am

    All trials take a long time. I was a witness in a murder trail once--it took two years. I think Rays court days are going quickly compared to my experience.

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  • a citizenAugust 16, 2013 - 8:47 am

    Fran, please read your post. Are you saying that what I posted is UnAmerican? I do think that local government is the best kind of government. And there are many issues currently on hold.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 9:19 am

    Not you personally...I think if someone does not recognize that... the presumption of innocence is essential to the criminal process. The mere mention of the phrase presumed innocent keeps judges and juries focused on the ultimate issue at hand in a criminal case: whether the prosecution has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the alleged acts. The people of the United States have rejected the alternative to a presumption of innocence—a presumption of guilt—as being inquisitorial and contrary to the principles of a free society". http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Innocent+until+proven+guilty. is for me...being un American.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 9:22 am

    I am stating what I believe...you are entitled to post what ever you wish. and because I am an american I get to say what I wish. In other countries where people do not go to court but are just accused and placed in jail--we could be killed for our opinions.

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  • anonymousAugust 16, 2013 - 9:27 am

    George Washington didn't get to be Father of our Country (FOC) by being stupid. And now he shows everyone he's still quick on the draw. But cummon, George, everyone knows the real George is dead. What's your name? Fess up. My name is Anonymous.

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  • cookie65August 16, 2013 - 9:39 am

    a citizen, feel free to look thru every last letter or story regarding Ray since all this started and you will find I have never made any comments in Ray's defense. In fact I was the first one to question whether or not he was selling any of the wood he was allegedly receiving tax payer funds to clear. I do not know him and I have never met him. All that being said, this whole thing has my stink-o-meter going off. Do I trust those leading this circus? H#LL NO!! Do I believe there is more to all of this? YES. How convenient is it that persons who may want to exclude Ray from conducting county business would only need to bring charges (valid or not) against him? Are there others within county politics who I would not trust with my dog? YES. There seem to be an awful lot of people who are of questionable motive who have already convicted him, without due process. The ideal outcome for me is nothing short of the Truth. And that includes what ever may be in the closets of those behind the very public castigation of Ray Nutting.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 9:41 am

    The only court case I was in...I was a witness in a murder trail. I know that the other side would ask questions over and over--same questions--just rephrased...to try and "catch "e in a lie. I was a witness for the state...I would leave feeling like I did something. The people finally confused to shooting my friend and setting him on fire. It was two years later...one of their parents finally turned in the gun they used. I was threatened by the other side...police sat by us--because one witness was threatened at gun point. the point is...it went on forever. The first interview didnt even take place for two months--after I had id d the body. Again...if your lawyer is not with you--you do not talk. I was in contempt once (and I was warned that I could spend the night in jail))...and I didnt murder anyone. I was pregnant and tired...and the other side kept asking really stupid questions--I was in my twenties. Unless you have been in a trial--no mater what side--it is an experience. One I hope to never be in again.

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 9:43 am

    @anonymous Avoid the issue much? Care to answer any of my questions? Didn't think so...

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  • Oh BrotherAugust 16, 2013 - 9:44 am

    This District Attorney's office loves to push people into pleading out. Many people have regretted the decision to give into the pressure and promises of a plea out. I would ALWAYS go to trial in this County. They DA's office truly are bullies.

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  • Oh BrotherAugust 16, 2013 - 9:46 am

    Pierson just wants to be right and what better way than to bully folks into pleading out.

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 9:46 am

    @cookie65 I get the distrust of local politicians, but do you believe the Attorney General has an ax to grind with Ray? Does this wild conspiracy theory go that far up?

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  • EvelynAugust 16, 2013 - 9:47 am

    Cookie: Good morning. I wish to quote and 2nd you. "This whole thing has my stink-o-meter going off. Do I trust those leading this circus? H#LL NO!! Do I believe there is more to all of this? YES. How convenient is it that persons who may want to exclude Ray from conducting county business would only need to bring charges (valid or not) against him? Are there others within county politics who I would not trust with my dog? YES. There seem to be an awful lot of people who are of questionable motive who have already convicted him, without due process. The ideal outcome for me is nothing short of the Truth. And that includes what ever may be in the closets of those behind the very public castigation of Ray Nutting."

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 10:06 am

    @Evelyn Same question that I posed to cookie. Do you think that the state's attorney general is in on the conspiracy? Or did Harn, Pierson, et al just pull the wool over her eyes? It's an honest and pertinent question. I wish someone would answer it.

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  • EvelynAugust 16, 2013 - 10:14 am

    GW: How about leveling the playing field and using your real name? That way we both can take responsibility for our comments/conjectures.

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  • Oh BrotherAugust 16, 2013 - 10:15 am

    Washington-it is the so called judicial system after all. So answer your own question. Do you think the judicial system will push to the easiest and cheapest way out with the most glory??? Bullying into pleading out is the cheapest, easiest and a win for them and their political careers. Some of your comments have the flavor of bullying...where do you work???

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 10:16 am

    @Evelyn How about avoiding the question a little more. Do you really think the Father of Our Country was the only person ever with that name?

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 10:18 am

    @Evelyn I'm sorry, are you just Evelyn, like Madonna, or Prince or Liberace?

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 10:21 am

    @Brother Say what now? Nowhere in that indecipherable mess of a comment was an answer to the question. Is the Attorney General's office involved in the "conspiracy"? If so, what do they possibly stand to gain from prosecuting a small time politician in a rural county?

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  • EvelynAugust 16, 2013 - 10:24 am

    George: YES!!! ********** Engaging in conversation with fake people on this particular topic is worse than counter productive. It is both "leading" and misleading.

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  • Oh BrotherAugust 16, 2013 - 10:25 am

    Washington, you are full of bull.

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 10:27 am

    @Evelyn Ok, so when a question is posed that you have no reasonable answer for, you just deflect and avoid by calling the questioner a fake person. Duly noted. I think you have a future in politics Evelyn!

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 10:29 am

    @ Brother Charming. And a typical response of someone who cannot defend their own position or answer a simple question. Is what I asked really so unreasonable?

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  • Oh BrotherAugust 16, 2013 - 10:38 am

    Washington-I never claimed to be charming. Read what I wrote, it does too make sense. It's all about political careers. Mr. Pierson is looking to further his career. Blog the two of them and come to your own conclusions.

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 10:41 am

    @Brother What does Vern Pierson have to do with the question I asked? It's a simple yes or no. Is the Attorney General's office involved in the "conspiracy" with Pierson, Harn, etc.? If you answer yes, please explain what you base that on and what the Attorney General gains by prosecuting a small time politician in a rural county.

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  • Oh BrotherAugust 16, 2013 - 10:44 am

    Washington aka Clark-you are not making any sense and I am not going to respond to your silly comments.

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 10:49 am

    @Brother Exactly the response I expected from you, no response at all. It's very easy to throw out these conspiracy theories, but things get a little more complicated when you're expected to back them up with facts. Fran, Evelyn and Anonymous are suspiciously quiet now too. I suspect it's because none of you can answer my question. Your silence speaks volumes. Oh, and who is Clark? Is that a first name or a last name? Clark Kent perhaps? I'm flattered...

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  • James E.August 16, 2013 - 10:53 am

    George, I'll answer your question. The State AG is not involved in a conspiracy against Nutting. Local officials still to be determined (but, probably not). Not related, but do you find it difficult to be confused with the father of our country?

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  • cookie65August 16, 2013 - 10:56 am

    George, Kamala Harris isn't exactly what any thinking person would call non-partisan. I would rate her right up there with eric holder as far as being an influence peddler and a political hack. http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/06/at-dem-convention-kamala-harris-demands-opportunity-open-to-everyone-but-had-special-career-help-from-powerful-boyfriend/

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 10:58 am

    @James Thank you for your answer Sir. I appreciate that someone finally came out and said it. If the Attorney General's office is not involved in the conspiracy, then they must feel the evidence is sufficient to convict Mr. Nutting or they would not be involved at all. As to being confused with the Father of Our Country, I assume most intelligent people realize he passed away long ago.

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 11:02 am

    @cookie Ok, then your position is that the Attorney General's office IS involved in the "conspiracy" with Pierson, Harn, etc.? That wasn't clear from your comments or the link you posted. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If that is your position, please tell me what is gained on their part by participating in the prosecution. Why would they have an agenda against Ray Nutting? I'm just trying to connect the dots.

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  • 1036-FrankAugust 16, 2013 - 11:17 am

    It seems to me this county has been down the Nutting road before. The facts are out there for all to read and appear in summary as follows; as to the evidence in this case, it is either there or it is not, if any have been paying attention closely you can read the evidence in this case for yourself. First start with the illegal fires, he has admitted them. Next go to the 700 forms he filed. He has admitted they were filed without sources of grant/rental income and these forms appear to be signed under penalty of perjury. Go then to the Prop 40 grants received as income, he has admitted them. Next go to the recorded votes he made to fund the districts the grants came from, they are recorded and it was reported he voted yes. The criminal Grand Jury composed of citizens heard the evidence and issued an indictment. If and when a trial jury hears the evidence many believe the conclusion made will match the evidence. It is really that simple. What the right thing for Nutting to do is to resign so he can prepare for trial as he is costing the county for a law firm and he can't vote on any financial issues and he is now causing himself to be prohibited from employee access to county offices, what's next? Someone to follow him while he is on county property and guard him from using county property for personal reasons such as his trial? When in county history has an indicted Supervisor or employee followed this route? Will the county need a restraining order soon? This situation is not going to get better if he doesn't resign.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 11:23 am

    lolol...I left....went to the store....I dont usually tell everyone bye--Im just rude and leave....lolololol

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 11:26 am

    Are you saying the Attorney General's office does not think everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law? Ray has his day in court--until then he is innocent in the eyes of the law...even the Attorney Generals office--you are not putting words in their mouth for them --are you?

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 11:27 am

    I like others feel that a person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. No conspiracy--it is part of out laws.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 11:30 am

    our...lololol

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  • cookie65August 16, 2013 - 11:32 am

    George, I looked thru my comments and can't find where I have used the word "conspiracy". In fact I can't find where I have done much of anything other than suggest that Ray should be entitled to his day in court. You obviously have a motive which causes me to question what your personal interest is. I don't have any personal interests, I do however possess a healthy dose of cynicism. I have seen a lot of accusations flying around these threads, which I read with a great deal of discretion. Your raving causes me more suspicion, not less. Just put Ray on the end of dunking chair and drown a confession out of him already.

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 11:42 am

    @Fran No, Fran, that's not what I'm saying. Please don't try to confuse the issue by putting words in my mouth. The general consensus of the Defenders of Ray on this site is that he is innocent of any wrongdoing and the only reason he's being prosecuted is because Harn and Pierson have a personal vendetta against him. My question would be, if that is the case, then why is the Attorney General's office also involved in the prosecution? They gain nothing politically by prosecuting an innocent man, so they must either be in on the conspiracy, or they must have determined that the evidence presented warranted prosecution. They would not take the case lightly or bother to prosecute if they did not feel that had enough evidence to convict.If they actually get that conviction will be up to the jury. Of course everyone is innocent until proven guilty in this country. Now, stalling, lashing out at the D.A., pleading the fifth, those all give the appearance of desperation. I read the grand jury transcript. I have an opinion about the validity of the charges. I have not convicted the man yet, but I definitely know which way I'm leaning. I wonder if all the defenders will be back if he's convicted. I'll be the first one here admitting I was wrong if he's acquitted.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 11:43 am

    Mission Statement It is our duty to serve our state and work honorably every day to fulfill California's promise. The Attorney General and our Department's employees provide leadership, information and education in partnership with state and local governments and the people of California to: Enforce and apply all our laws fairly and impartially. Ensure justice, safety, and liberty for everyone. Encourage economic prosperity, equal opportunity and tolerance. Safeguard California's human, natural, and financial resources for this and future generations. http://oag.ca.gov/office See george--im thinking they also uphold the phrase innocent until proven guilty in a court of law--not on the wall of the MD

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 11:49 am

    @cookie It's not raving to ask pertinent questions. I'll quote your comments for you, since you seem to have overlooked them "All that being said, this whole thing has my stink-o-meter going off. Do I trust those leading this circus? H#LL NO!! Do I believe there is more to all of this? YES. How convenient is it that persons who may want to exclude Ray from conducting county business would only need to bring charges (valid or not) against him? Are there others within county politics who I would not trust with my dog? YES." That seems to me an accusation that the charges are politically motivated by Harn, Pierson or whomever else you don't trust in the local government. If it was just the local government prosecuting Ray, I would say you were totally justified. But we all know it's not just the local government, but also the Attorney General. That fact makes the conspiracy fall apart, unless of course people believe that the Attorney General is in bed with Harn and Pierson. That seems a bit far fetched to me, only because there is nothing to be gained from it.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 11:50 am

    According to their site--they help where asked--no where on their site does it mention Ray is guilty. If asked they take it as their duty to help local law enforcement--there is nothing else on their site about Ray.

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 11:51 am

    @Fran I already agreed with you that he's innocent until proven guilty. Why do you continue to try to obfuscate the issue?

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 11:54 am

    @Fran Yes, they help when asked, but not blindly. They investigate the charges and review the evidence. They would not be a part of this proceeding if they did not feel that had enough evidence to convict. That is not the same as presuming him guilty. It is their job to prove he's guilty. You're confusing the two, I suspect intentionally.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 11:56 am

    I do not know about a "conspiracy"--I do know that a person is innocent until proven guilty. I also know that it is odd to have so many tell Ray to step down on this forum. He was arrested...he is out. He will go to court. I also think it is odd when I listed a group of people from many different posts--all of a sudden I was being attacked--I find that odd as well. I guess I could write the Attorney Generals office and ask what their position is on helping a local government....or a person being innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 11:59 am

    @Fran I'm not understanding how you can be so obtuse. Is it legitimate, an act, or a way to make people just get frustrated and give up? If it's the latter, bravo! Well played!

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 11:59 am

    George...really? It would be a great question for the next reporter who sees the Attorney General....are you just going through the motions--because you know someone is already guilty?

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 12:02 pm

    @Fran If a prosecutor does not believe someone is guilty, why prosecute? Again, intentionally confusing the two to better fit your arguments. No one is fooled.

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  • Kirk MacKenzieAugust 16, 2013 - 12:02 pm

    George Washington -- you write "The general consensus of the Defenders of Ray on this site is that he is innocent of any wrongdoing and the only reason he's being prosecuted is because Harn and Pierson have a personal vendetta against him". Who are "the Denders of Ray on this site"? If it is those on this thread, the consensus is: he is innocent until proven guilty. I find it particularly offensive that you would sully your pseudonym with such a falsehood. Now about your statement "I read the grand jury transcript. I have an opinion about the validity of the charges." That is a sealed document, which makes you a part of the legal team prosecuting Mr Nutting and attempting to influence the jury pool, or a criminal. Again, you do disservice to the name you choose to post under.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 12:06 pm

    Well fight your fight--im waiting for the trial. and will not okay any one else going in to take a seat on the BOS without knowing for sure what is going to happen. I am moving on--I am not a lawyer or a California Judge. George you should never assume...I gain nothing by standing by Ray. A person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Speaking of elections--is any one from Pollock going to run for supervisor?

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 12:10 pm

    @Kirk The Grand Jury transcript is public record, son, posted right her on the Mountain Democrat website: http://www.mtdemocrat.com/news/ray-nutting-grand-jury-transcript/ Perhaps let the adults talk until you learn to do a little research? As far as your other statement, yes, he's innocent until proven guilty, but Harn and Pierson have been repeatedly brought up as the only reason he's been arrested or indicted, because they have a political agenda against him. That doesn't stand up to the sniff test when you realize the Attorney General is prosecuting as well.

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  • Kirk MacKenzieAugust 16, 2013 - 12:46 pm

    George Washington -- my mistake on sealed grand jury proceedings. As to leaving it to "adults", not all adults are grown ups. Posting under a fake name is a strike against you qualifying as a grown up. AG involvement only means she -- more likely her subordinates -- believe there is enough evidence to warrant prosecution. As DA of San Francisco, her conviction rate in the first 3 months of 2010 (before she became AG) was 53%.

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  • Afraid of being castigatedAugust 16, 2013 - 1:20 pm

    Kirk and other, When the Chief of enforcement for the FPPC was quoted saying "Nutting was deceptive in last Monday's article" What do you think he meant?

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  • MarthaAugust 16, 2013 - 1:28 pm

    Dear Afraid of being castrated: Learn to face your fears.

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  • Kirk MacKenzieAugust 16, 2013 - 1:41 pm

    Afraid of being castigated -- it means the Chief of enforcement for the FPPC said Mr Nutting was doing something like posting under a fake name.

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 1:46 pm

    @kirk and Martha I guess if you don't have a leg to stand on with your argument, you need to change the subject quickly. Fake names seem to be an effective strawman, yes?

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  • Kirk MacKenzieAugust 16, 2013 - 1:53 pm

    George Washington -- nice attempt at trying to change the subject.

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  • MarthaAugust 16, 2013 - 2:01 pm

    FOC dear, if getting defensive and agitated helps you blow off steam then let 'er blow. But the county needs you and i do too. Those wooden teeth in your mouth are becoming a problem between you and me cause of all them splinters when you kiss me good night. pleeze go to placerville hardware or home Depot after work and buy something to file away the rough edges.

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  • LouiseAugust 16, 2013 - 2:05 pm

    Mr. Nutting will have his day in court on September 20, where the judge will either arraign him or per Mr. Nuttings attorney's request, dismiss the charges. Mr. Nutting may be found innocent of all charges. Unfortunately, the one thing Mr. Nutting should be charged for is not a criminal offense. That is being "stupid". This is clearly indicated in the Grand Jury Transcripts. Also, his push to seek a waiver for an application for Section 8 money. Not to mention causing five wildland fires, using grant money, to burn overgrowth on his property. Don't you think after the first fire, you would be more cautious, certainly after 2,3, and 4 fires. What do you think this cost the taxpayers, plus pulled our firefighters from responding to other emergencies. Ray's guilt may prove to be his stupidity and that he got caught. He certainly should know better, in this, his 4th term serving as a county supervisor.

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 2:09 pm

    @Martha Not agitated, just laughing at you and your ilk. Careful now, Kirk will get his panties in a bunch if he finds out Martha isn't your real name!

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  • Afraid of being castigatedAugust 16, 2013 - 2:11 pm

    It might be time to ask the ladies if their statements are more rhetorical in manner. It would be impossible to speak for those who are actually in the position to Judge or prosecute the case. Nor would most even want to. When the Ladies make statements like "do you suppose Ray should get his day in court before sentencing him?" or "some deciding what Ray should do--yet he hasn't gone to trial yet. But I guess everyone in this county went to law school." Are to most, purposefully inflammatory. Todd White states succinctly "Like many others in El Dorado County, I supported Ray Nutting for County Supervisor in 2012. Ray convinced me he was the best candidate for this elected position, because he was heavily active in the community for many years, and he had a servant’s heart for the citizens in this county." Ray is very popular and to many loved. But the facts are clear. The federal government will not give us our tax dollars back to our community with someone indicted sitting on the board. He has been indicted. There is no two ways about it. Why should everyone freeze their lives for Ray Nutting? Why would he want us to? Finally, this paper is one of the very few that allows people to use their real names. Most all ask you not to for safety sake.

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  • MarthaAugust 16, 2013 - 2:14 pm

    Louise you speak such good legal that i could a sweared you was George reincarnated. Mercy me.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 2:19 pm

    "The federal government will not give us our tax dollars back to our community with someone indicted sitting on the board. He has been indicted. There is no two ways about it. Why should everyone freeze their lives for Ray Nutting?" So this is about money? someone high up has said...El Dorado county can not have its own money unless Ray Nutting steps down? May I have a link please that states this.

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  • Fran DuchampAugust 16, 2013 - 2:21 pm

    A written accusation charging that an individual named therein has committed an act or omitted to do something that is punishable by law. An indictment is found and presented by a Grand Jury legally convened and sworn. It originates with a prosecutor and is issued by the grand jury against an individual who is charged with a crime. Before such individual may be convicted, the charge must be proved at trial Beyond a Reasonable Doubt. The purpose of an indictment is to inform an accused individual of the charge against him or her so that the person will be able to prepare a defense. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/indictment

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  • Kirk MacKenzieAugust 16, 2013 - 2:25 pm

    George Washington -- Martha has disclosed her real name.

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 2:30 pm

    @ Kirk Martha has disclosed her real name, as far as you know. Or do you think Martha is her real name? Surely you're not that naive? Kindly point me in the direction of "Martha's" real name, if you would...

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  • Kirk MacKenzieAugust 16, 2013 - 2:35 pm

    George Washington -- talk about changing the subject! Do your own research. And while you're at it, do you think county politicians and a former SF DA have any motive for trying to oust a supervisor that has indicated they would vote for lower density development?

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 2:42 pm

    @Kirk Are you slow? You said Martha disclosed her real name. I asked where she did this. How exactly is that changing the subject? Why would a former SF DA and current AG care about what Ray will or won't vote for? I think you have an inflated view of El Dorado counties worth. But at least now I know you're one of the conspiracy theory nuts, which is particularly hilarious because you reprimanded me for even suggesting some people thought it was a conspiracy. Let me refresh your memory: "George Washington -- you write "The general consensus of the Defenders of Ray on this site is that he is innocent of any wrongdoing and the only reason he's being prosecuted is because Harn and Pierson have a personal vendetta against him". Who are "the Denders of Ray on this site"? If it is those on this thread, the consensus is: he is innocent until proven guilty. I find it particularly offensive that you would sully your pseudonym with such a falsehood." Which one is it Kirky? You can't have it both ways!

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  • Afraid of being castigatedAugust 16, 2013 - 3:05 pm

    Ma'am are wanting a link to the Federal Law that has forced Ray Nutting to step down in regards to funding? Or a link to the stories in this paper that have reported that fact numerous times? When you say "So it's about the money" is that rhetorical? Yes the Federal and State Government has clearly said that Ray Nutting can not have anything to do in any way with anything that involves the public's finances. And now he can not have direct access to any county department head as reported in this paper.

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  • Kirk MacKenzieAugust 16, 2013 - 3:25 pm

    George Washington -- I'll take that as a "no" to my motive question. Martha disclosed her real name in a comment on some other thread some time ago. I may be slow, but I know the difference between a conspiracy and a (mischaracterized) claim of consensus.

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 3:34 pm

    @Kirk You said no one who is defending Ray believes or has suggested that there is a conspiracy between Vern Pierson, Joe Harn and possibly Kamala Harris. You specifically chastised me for suggesting such a thing. Then in a later post, you are asking me if there is a political motive for these people to to want to oust Ray. So maybe I'm slow, or maybe it's the same thing. Maybe you don't think you're suggesting a conspiracy, just alluding to the possibility of one. Maybe you're hiding behind semantics. It's hard to tell with all the flip flopping. My only motive in this is to let the system do it's work. People need to focus on the charges and the evidence, not wild conspiracy theories about the D.A., county auditor and attorney general. That's the funniest part. Everyone says Ray needs his day in court and he's innocent until proven guilty, which I agree with, but in your next breath you accused people of political vendetta's, etc., without a shred of proof. Seem hypocritical to me.

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  • cookie65August 16, 2013 - 3:47 pm

    Afraid, if you are going to "quote" me, ie. your 2:11 post, at least do it accurately and don't take it out of context. What I said was, from 7:32am "Frank, do you suppose Ray should get his day in court prior to you sentencing him?" It was a question directed at Frank 1036 in response to his 4:04 pm comment where he stated, "I second the motion, and further he should resign now before he leaves in handcuffs to prison."

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  • Kirk MacKenzieAugust 16, 2013 - 3:55 pm

    George Washington -- you wrote "You said no one who is defending Ray believes or has suggested that there is a conspiracy between Vern Pierson, Joe Harn and possibly Kamala Harris." I wrote no such thing. You wrote "Then in a later post, you are asking me if there is a political motive for these people to to want to oust Ray." I did not say anything about politics. Relax and take a few deep breaths...wouldn't want an important person like you to blow a gasket over a nobody like me.

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 4:20 pm

    @Kirk I'll refresh your memory again: ""George Washington -- you write "The general consensus of the Defenders of Ray on this site is that he is innocent of any wrongdoing and the only reason he's being prosecuted is because Harn and Pierson have a personal vendetta against him". Who are "the Denders of Ray on this site"? If it is those on this thread, the consensus is: he is innocent until proven guilty. I find it particularly offensive that you would sully your pseudonym with such a falsehood." Kirk, it's right there for you to see. Those aren't my words, they're yours. So, do you believe in the conspiracy or don't you?

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  • George WashingtonAugust 16, 2013 - 4:22 pm

    @Kirk Did you not say this: "And while you're at it, do you think county politicians and a former SF DA have any motive for trying to oust a supervisor that has indicated they would vote for lower density development?" I shouldn't have to point this out to you.

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  • Kirk MacKenzieAugust 16, 2013 - 4:53 pm

    George Washington -- re your 4:20 pm comment: You don't need to refresh my memory, but thanks for continuing to point out that I was chastising you for your mischaracterization of the consensus on this thread.

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  • James E.August 16, 2013 - 4:53 pm

    Had President Washington been put on amoxycillin 500mg, he would be alive today.

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  • Kirk MacKenzieAugust 16, 2013 - 4:55 pm

    George Washington -- re your 4:22pm comment: I was asking for your opinion. Your dodge of the question speaks volumes. Do I believe there is a conspiracy? I believe it's possible, given the drive towards high density development against the wishes of the majority of county residents I've talked with. Amazingly similar to the roundabout issue, but on a far larger scale.

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  • cookie65August 16, 2013 - 5:14 pm

    George is far to eager to be just an observer. His enthusiasm for pushing a public opinion is highly suspicious.

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  • oh brotherAugust 16, 2013 - 5:27 pm

    Amen cookie 65. Mr Washington is getting far too much attention.

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  • J. OthersideAugust 16, 2013 - 5:32 pm

    Correct me if I'm wrong (Mr. weird dead president dude (dudette?)), but the original charges against Ray Nutting were brought by local officials. The AG charges were brought after considering Ray's responses to the original charges. This would leave room for the local conspiracy to co-exist with the independent, theoretically un-conspired charges. If so, the conspiracists couldn't have asked for a better poker hand as Ray played right into it. And so it goes with our justice system. Or I've watched one too many episodes of Law & Order.

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  • public service announcementAugust 16, 2013 - 5:39 pm

    George has knocked off for the day but after he catches his breath he'll return to practice prosecuting a weak case. Where better than the Comments section of the local rag!

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  • Oh BrotherAugust 16, 2013 - 8:56 pm

    Oh yeah and check out Mr. Washington's hours that he comments. Even has a lunch break...hmmmm

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  • Peter JohnsonAugust 16, 2013 - 9:00 pm

    You're all a bunch of small time losers. Who has time to sit around replying to phantoms all day? None of you could recognize George for the troll he is? His goal was to rile you up and waste your time, and he did it beautifully. El Dorado County should be swallowed up by a sink hole and cease to exist. You all deserve each other.

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  • Nathan foltzAugust 16, 2013 - 9:19 pm

    Shouldn't we take half of Rays salary away if he can only participate in half of his supervisors duties

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  • cookie65August 17, 2013 - 6:00 am

    Peter/George, we can't all be big-time losers, unless you have time to coach us. Next time someone wants to respond in defense of presumed innocence they will submit a request for your permission first. Your comment is the most "riled up" of anyone's here. When individuals are so desperate to push an agenda many people on here will respond to them. You should have someone help you out with your anger issues. The only thing Peter/George did beautifully was make fools of themselves. Are we supposed to be heartbroken over you leaving El Dorado county and not returning? Apparently you have no equal when it comes to admiration of yourself.

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  • PatriceAugust 17, 2013 - 5:08 pm

    You are incredible cookie, or whatever your REAL name is. Everything you just posted is like the honest you is looking in a mirror. Mirror, mirror, a phoney image.

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  • PatriciaAugust 17, 2013 - 5:27 pm

    Patrice, darling, calm down.

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  • PatriceAugust 17, 2013 - 7:41 pm

    Patricia, I was and am calm. Thank you. Disgusted with this cookie person's double standards and often raging. Don't call me darling please, and bite me.

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  • cookie65August 17, 2013 - 8:09 pm

    Patrice, wasn't life much simpler when leftists were free to degrade, besmirch, slander, misrepresent and belittle anyone who disagreed with them and those they did it to never stood up and said FUH' Q....

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  • Oh BrotherAugust 18, 2013 - 10:32 am

    test

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  • Robert Van GilderAugust 18, 2013 - 3:42 pm

    Do people really read or pay attention to posts done anonymously? What a waste.

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  • cookie65August 18, 2013 - 4:47 pm

    "A closed mouth gathers no feet" -- Anonymous

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  • PatriceAugust 18, 2013 - 6:32 pm

    Cookie person, see how ignorant you are! I am not a leftist by any stretch of your indignant imagination. What is your real name? Why hide? Are you really that important?

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  • PatriceAugust 18, 2013 - 7:33 pm

    Didn't think so.

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  • cookie65August 18, 2013 - 8:07 pm

    Patrice, I never said you were a leftist. I asked a question pertaining to the decades of leftists maligning anyone and everyone who dared disagree with them with impunity. Something they continue to do to this very day. If you don't like someone giving it back to them and exposing the disgusting lie that is leftism, don't read what I write. Pretty simple. If you chose to defend them, that is your prerogative. I am pro-freedom of speech. I am an anti-leftist. Leftism feeds off the destruction of people. I will spend my last breath exposing the lie that it is for the benefit of my kids and grandkids. I assume Patrice is your name, who said cookie wasn't my name?

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  • George WashingtonAugust 19, 2013 - 8:16 am

    @ Oh Brother This was really a gem "Oh BrotherAugust 16, 2013 - 8:56 pm Oh yeah and check out Mr. Washington's hours that he comments. Even has a lunch break...hmmmm" Yeah, who gets a lunch break? Maybe, someone who's employed? Are you living off the tax payers dollar Brother? Sorry I wasn't here commenting on a Friday night. I, unlike the usual suspects around here, have a life outside of the comments section of the Mountain Democrat. Let's face it, those who know Ray and don't like him will think he's guilty. Those who know him and like him will think he's innocent. Those who have an ax to grind against Harn, Pierson, etc., will think anything they do is wrong. I don't know Ray. Before all of this, I didn't have an opinion about him one way or the other. After reading the Grand Jury transcript, I now have an opinion. How many of you have read it? It all comes down to this for me: Which is more likely, that a small time politician decided that rules don't apply to him and tried to work the system, or that there is a vast statewide conspiracy to unseat the Supervisor of District 2 of El Dorado County? If we were talking about trying to bring down a Republican governor, I might take it a little more seriously, but what power does Ray have outside a little rural county? Doesn't add up.

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  • Oh BrotherAugust 19, 2013 - 10:01 am

    At dumb Washington, here you are again during working hours blogging. Now who is working and playing on their computer during work hours?? I guess your boss must be in charge of the IT department and lets you get away with it. Go ahead and blast me, IDC and LMFAO at you anyway. And you are not honest so stop insulting the memory of an honest man by using his name.

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  • George WashingtonAugust 19, 2013 - 10:35 am

    @Brother TANF, WIC, CASDI, acronyms are fun! You sure do follow me around responding to my every word a lot for someone who says IDC....hmmmm....

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  • George WashingtonAugust 19, 2013 - 10:37 am

    @ Brother Oh, and Brother, you're great at throwing around personal attacks while avoiding any of the points I brought up. Well done!

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  • Oh BrotherAugust 19, 2013 - 11:02 am

    @Washington- still LMFAO at you. I work hard at my job, apparently you don't have to. You and Patrice should hook up.

    Reply | Report abusive comment
  • George WashingtonAugust 19, 2013 - 11:15 am

    @ Brother Which is why you're here, frantically responding to me, right? =) Brother, will you be here when the trial is over or Ray pleads out?

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  • Oh BrotherAugust 19, 2013 - 8:51 pm

    Yep will still be here.

    Reply | Report abusive comment
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