Wednesday, April 16, 2014
PLACERVILLE, CALIFORNIA
99 CENTS

The delusions of George Alger

EDITOR:

After reading George Alger’s many letters, I wonder how long his nose has become. Is he angling for a role as Pinocchio or Cyrano de Bergerac?

In his latest letter to the Mountain Democrat, Alger claims that Congress exempted itself from the Affordable Care Act. As usual, he gets his “facts” wrong; Congress did not exempt itself from the ACA. Congressmen and their staffers now enrolled under FEHBA (Federal Employees Health Benefits Act) will have to switch to ACA coverage. What has not changed, however, is the health premium subsidy that the federal government provides to all federal workers. This is a practice commonly followed by large employers and Uncle Sam needs to continue this practice if it wants to attract good employees.

Why does George Alger keep getting things so consistently wrong when a simple detour to Factcheck.org or similar Websites would set him straight? Mr. Alger is not interested in facts or truth, only in reinforcing his biases and of those who, like him, live in the Teahadist bubble.

JOHN GARON
Placerville

Letters to the Editor

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Discussion | 179 comments

  • EvelynOctober 10, 2013 - 6:59 am

    WELCOME NEWS: Underwriting health care for federal workers will attract good employees.

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  • VernOctober 14, 2013 - 8:46 am

    House Republicans recently issued a plan, endorsed by their Senate counterparts, to repeal the health reform law, the Affordable Care Act. In advancing their plan to repeal health reform, Republicans would revoke benefits of health reform that have already begun or will begin within a year of enactment, including enhanced Medicare benefits for seniors, tax credits for small businesses, strengthened consumer protections, and other benefits the Republicans don’t want you to have. These are the cruel consequences for Americans if their scheme to repeal health reform were to succeed.

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 4:40 am

    4 Pinocchio's.

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 4:44 am

    Pot meet Kettle.

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 5:41 am

    Federal workers bubble. http://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillmatthews/2013/08/12/shocker-new-survey-finds-nearly-every-federal-employee-rejects-obamacare/

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 5:53 am

    Section 1512 of Obamacare says clearly that employees going to the Exchange lose their previous employer subsidy.

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  • VernOctober 14, 2013 - 8:08 am

    The Affordable Care Act includes health insurance market reforms that will bring immediate benefits to millions of Americans, which most Reublicians will benefit from and no doubt use. It includes those who currently have coverage. The following benefits will be available following enactment in March 2010. Provides assistance to states in establishing offices of health insurance consumer assistance or health insurance ombudsman programs to assist individuals with the filing of complaints and appeals, enrollment in a health plan, and, eventually, to assist consumers with resolving problems with tax credit eligibility. Effective Fiscal Year 2010, which began October 1, 2009. The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) issued a fact sheet, and grant information is available at Grants.gov, applications are due September 10, 2010. Offers tax credits to small businesses beginning in 2010 to make employee coverage more affordable. Tax credits of up to 35 percent of premiums will be immediately available to firms that choose to offer coverage. The full credit will be available to firms with 10 or fewer employees and average annual wages of up to $25,000, while firms with up to 25 or fewer employees and average annual wages of up to $50,000 will also be eligible for a credit. Effective beginning calendar year 2010. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) sent postcards to more than four million businesses that may be eligible, issued guidance, and has more information at IRS.gov. Tax credits for up to 50 percent of premiums will be available in 2014. Effective January 1, 2014. Provides a $250 rebate check for Medicare beneficiaries who do not receive Medicare Extra Help and who hit the ‘donut hole’ in 2010. Effective calendar year 2010. The first checks were sent to qualifying beneficiaries in early June and a brochure with more information is available at Medicare.gov. Beginning in 2011, the same Medicare beneficiaries will receive a 50 percent discount on brand-name drugs and biologics when they reach the donut hole. These are the first steps toward completely filling in the donut hole by 2020. Effective January 1, 2011. A brochure with information for beneficiaries is available at Medicare.gov, the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) issued information for pharmaceutical manufacturers, a letter to Part D sponsors, and a notice appeared in the Federal Register.

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  • JohnOctober 14, 2013 - 8:14 am

    ADDENDUM TO THE LETTER: Cookie65 is the only habitual kibitzer who gets his/her facts even more consistently wrong than George Alger. Incredible, but true. Folks cut out of the Cookie65 mold do NOT want a good federal work force. Their aim is to sabotage the government so they can crow: "I told you it does not work!". "Saboteurs", is a good term for them.

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 14, 2013 - 12:16 pm

    John, I don't understand any of these. Can you help?LINK - Dilbert Creator Scott Adams Presents His 10 Favorite Strips

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 8:27 am

    Spin it anyway you choose but the facts remain. The federal workers are EXEMPTED from the income cap on subsidies, they are EXEMPTED from banned employer subsidies. They are EXEMPTED from the mandates for employers of 50 or more employees. OPM declared Congress to be the equivalent of a business with fewer than 50 employees, in order to evade parts of Obamacare. I don't know how you define EXEMPT but any dictionary defines it as such; ex·empt /igˈzem(p)t/ verb past tense: exempted; past participle: exempted 1. free (a person or organization) from an obligation or liability imposed on others.

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 8:37 am

    Riddle me this, if an individual elects not purchase ovomitcare and instead chooses to have their tax confiscated by the IRS instead, will they be denied healthcare?

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 8:39 am

    The braindrain argument is pathetic. How did this country become the wealthiest, most prosperous, most advance country in the history of humans without 600+ government agencies?

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  • Over in-formedOctober 14, 2013 - 9:32 am

    Who's paying you?

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  • VernOctober 14, 2013 - 9:27 am

    It’s hard to describe my feelings of finding reference to Pinocchio Democrats. It was like discovering a secret, a deeply held secret. I was amazed and still don’t believe it to be true. I always thought it to be some mythological creature. But I had forgotten, during my campaigning for John McCain in 2002, John pointed out a Pinocchio Democrat as he ran across the road in Dallas, Texas. He said he remembered reading that its defining feature is the male’s long protrusion on the end of its nose. Far from being a sturdy, rigid structure, he said, it’s been found that the horn is actually quite flexible and that it preys mostly on Pinocchio Republican females. Despite its peculiar appearance, the Pinocchio Democrat wasn’t formally described by Republicans until McCain’s sighting in 2001. It’s commonly found hiding among the population of red states. Only six of the specimens have been documented. The two most recent sightings were two spotted several times in Texas near George W. Bush’s estate and only one or two times since and then the species seemed to vanish.

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 9:33 am

    Vern, will failure to comply with the individual mandate result in the denial of healthcare?

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  • NancyOctober 14, 2013 - 10:23 am

    House Republicans recently issued a plan to repeal the health reform law, the Affordable Care Act. One of the many benefits of the Act is to use $250 million made available by the Obama Administration to increase the supply of primary care providers. Which is badly needed.

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 9:40 am

    The only thing the federal workers aren't EXEMPTED from is obama's lie that if you like your plan you will be able to keep it. If I were a braindead leftists I would be panicking and spreading misinformation as fast as possible too.

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  • DavidOctober 14, 2013 - 9:44 am

    cookie why don't you respond when someone catches you in your hypocritical world. Why is it that when someone stated something you didn't agree with and posted at 3:30 a.m. you called them a druggie. But...... when you post in the middle of the night it is because "I read more books than you before 6 a.m. than you read in a week" [which by the way how do you know that......... just more cookie facts}

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  • VernOctober 14, 2013 - 9:51 am

    Many though out history have fought lost causes, the concept is simple: Alonso Quijano, landowner from La Mancha, is obsessed with his library of chivalrous books. Driven mad by the inconsistencies of plot, character and philosophy that fill each volume of these seventeenth-century precursors to the fantasy novel, Quijano resolves to restore dignity to the lost profession of knight-errantry, assembles a rudimentary sword, suit of armor, and horse (the eternally-suffering-and-spavined Rocinante), and sets out into Spain in his quest for glory. In return for this act of hysterical faith, he finds violent innkeepers, malevolent thieves, cynical shepherds, sadistic nobility, and even (due to Avellaneda's false sequel to the book's first volume, one of the most famous pieces of fan-fiction ever written) an inferior (and, in the novel, invisible) Quixote impostor. The first few scenes involve Quixote alone against the contemporary world, but before a hundred pages have elapsed Cervantes introduces Sancho Panza, Quixote's gullible, bloated and homily-spouting squire, who in conjunction with Quixote provides the spark for endlessly bizarre discussions in which Quixote's heightened, insane conception of the world is brought crashing to earth by Sancho's sly pragmatism (discussions which occasionally end with Quixote threatening to pummel Sancho in order to shut him up).

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 9:54 am

    Defining delusions. “I created much of the intellectual foundation for what they do, I support what they do.” -- elizabeth warren on occupy wall street. / “So there was a lot of, shall we say, Astroturf, as opposed to grassroots.” -- nancy pelosi on the teaparty. Which one is the left still talking about and obsessing over?

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 9:57 am

    David, show me a posting from me where I questioned the time someone commented. I asked you to do this in another thread and got no response. I understand how you need to make this about me.

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 9:59 am

    Vern, I asked you a simple question, why won't you answer it? Or respond to the facts I listed regarding the EXEMPTIONS granted to congress?

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  • William, PlacervilleOctober 14, 2013 - 10:01 am

    Extrapolating from CBO’s estimate of the deficit savings resulting from the Affordable Care Act, repeal of health reform is likely to increase the deficit by $143 billion.

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  • James E.October 14, 2013 - 11:33 am

    Mr. Alger gets big press on the MtDemocrat web site today. But, of more immediate concern is the debt default on Thursday. One can hope that it will be prevented by an agreement fostered by the Senate, as the House continues to be held hostage by a Tea Party that threatens to pull the pin out of the grenade (which they hold to their throats). If the Tea Party blows itself up and we go into default, we will then see whether we have a president or just another politician -- preside over a disastrous national default or go down in history as a president who saved the nation from the Congress. Impeachment? Sure, it's all the Tea/Republicans have left. But, it will fail.

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 11:36 am

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/14/obamacare-navigator-in-kansas-has-outstanding-arrest-warrant/

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  • Dee#1October 14, 2013 - 11:47 am

    It is difficult to negotiate with someone who keeps moving the goal posts. ------------Who are the "hostage-takers" now? Convinced by opinion polls that the media will let them get away with it, Democrats are now refusing to pass a "clean" continuing resolution to end the government shutdown, as well as a straightforward debt ceiling increase, in order to undo the sequester cuts that went into effect earlier this year. They are the ones holding a gun to Republicans' heads, threatening default if their demands are not met. Just like Obamacare, the sequester--passed in the Budget Control Act of 2011--is the "law of the land." And yet Democrats want to undo it--or else they will keep nearly 400,000 federal employees out of work and let the country risk not paying its bills. Where is the outrage at this disgusting hypocrisy? Where are all the dire warnings about children with cancer and catastrophic interest rates and the end of civilization as we know it?

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 11:48 am

    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/consumers-warned-misleading-insurance-websites

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  • Ray AllenOctober 14, 2013 - 11:55 am

    Are there any moderate democrats left in congress? Is our President the Senate leader or the House democrat leader moderate? The democrat party have been held hostage by Left Wing Radicals who remove the football change the goal line and change the game as the mood fits them. President Obama has made it clear he will not negotiate with the House republicans. So I say bravo tea party conservatives. Thank you for standing up for what you believe. If the news media and left wing supporters here are worried about the US not paying on the debt the the fix is simple. The government takes in 260 billion a month in taxes. The interest on the debt is 18 billion. Our President can issue an executive order to pay the interest if he wishes. Then that would be one less thing to worry about. If you are truly worried that is

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  • R J CarterOctober 14, 2013 - 11:57 am

    Yes, Republicans have taken a lot the heat for this shutdown, but just maybe this is the best thing that's happened to our country in a very long time....A whole lot of people in this country haven't been paying attention, now their waking up from of their comas, rubbing their eyes and starting to put 2 & 2 together......... Obama has not only doubled the debt of all 43 Presidents before him, he's also tripled their excuses....Obama pretends to feel everybody's pain while he blames Bush, the House, racism, The Tea Party, you name it, he blames it.....The last 5 years of failure is everybody's fault, except his and his Liberal minion....So now thanks to the pain of this shutdown people are finally beginning to wake up, smell the coffee and starting to pay attention....When they do, the more intelligent ones will realize it's the Senate democrats who are the ones who have really taken America hostage over the years....

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 11:58 am

    CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen still cannot sign up for obozocare after 2 weeks of trying. http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/two-weeks-later-reporter-still-cant-sign-obamacare_762482.html

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  • James E.October 14, 2013 - 12:02 pm

    Dee, should it be true that the Democrats are holding a .357 to the heads of the Tea/Republicans, then I say BRAVO. And, I hope the hammer has been pulled back for emphasis.

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  • James E.October 14, 2013 - 12:05 pm

    Question: If the nation goes into default will the Congress continue to be payed? Anyone.

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 12:05 pm

    Ray Allen, the evidence for how radical left has become is President George W Bush. He gave them virtually everything they wanted, he increased government, he increased spending, he increased entitlements, he increased education, he increased aids research spending and countless other leftists sacred cow causes and they still treated him like the anti-Christ. They are deranged.

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  • James E.October 14, 2013 - 12:12 pm

    I think the government defaulted in 1812 -- British burned down the White House and the Treasury was empty. Did they have T Bills then?

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  • James E.October 14, 2013 - 12:15 pm

    Cookie, if all that is true, then I say: George W. Bush for president, 2016!

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  • James E.October 14, 2013 - 12:19 pm

    R.J., it's true, lots of people are waking up because a default would impact their lives. However, one side is computing 2+2=4, while the other side is computing 2+2=5.

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  • Dee#1October 14, 2013 - 12:20 pm

    James,of course you do. Complete, total elimination of anyone who does agree with your goals is one your desires. But it is o.k. be eventually there will be no opponents and you will have to start eating your own.

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  • James E.October 14, 2013 - 12:24 pm

    Phil, I enjoyed all the cartoons and especially the picture of the model just below. I did enjoy the model, but I cannot remember why. Tough to get old.

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  • Dee#1October 14, 2013 - 12:24 pm

    James,sadly what Cookie says is true. That is why the Tea Party was born. You should obtain your Bush for 2016 now. ButI understand it will be Jeb not George.

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  • James E.October 14, 2013 - 12:27 pm

    Dee, in the Cavalry, when you get the enemy on the run you go into pursuit mode and run them down and destroy them. War is brutal, as should be politics.

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  • James E.October 14, 2013 - 12:30 pm

    Dee, Jeb would have the better chance, but the Tea Party will demand Cruz or the freshman Senator from Kentucky. Hillary will crush them.

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  • Dee#1October 14, 2013 - 12:37 pm

    James, however that forgoes any compromise. So if you play for complete and total destruction , stop complaining when the other side tries their weak and pathetic attempt not to be destroyed. And if by chance they succeed, don't continue to call the names and demand concessions. If we play by your rules,accept them.

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  • James E.October 14, 2013 - 12:42 pm

    Dee, compromise. Over the past few weeks I have heard the demands of the Tea/Republicans. But, in compromise, do the Democrats get to have their demands? Seems to have been all one sided.

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  • James E.October 14, 2013 - 12:50 pm

    If the president forgoes his chance at greatness and allows the Treasury to pay a quarter here and a dime there, I suggest the following allocation: Pay the interest on the T Bills, fully fund the Pentagon, the VA, Medicare and Social Security. With the dimes left, pay all the rest with reduced funding, except programs in the Red states who would get nothing (this might encourage the Tea/Republicans to raise the debt ceiling).

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  • James E.October 14, 2013 - 12:54 pm

    After all, if the Democrats have their foot on the necks of the Tea/Republicans, they should push down hard to really get their attention.

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  • Dink LaneOctober 14, 2013 - 1:12 pm

    If SS checks don't go out on the 23rd AND Veteran payments don't go out on the 31st........ What would that do to the Small Business Community in Placerville??? Don't worry McClintock got his Oct 1st paycheck of $174,000 PLUS his $2300 and another $2400 Retirement checks from the CA state legislature...... and He's not spending one dime in Placerville.... Maybe not even CA...

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 3:01 pm

    I wonder if this prevented a braindrain. http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/SF-to-cover-uninsured-s-gender-reassignment-4046873.php

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 3:04 pm

    James, none of the leftists loons will dare to respond so I must ask you. If any individual dares to pass on ovomitcare and chooses to have the IRS confiscate a tax from them instead, will they be denied healthcare?

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  • James E.October 14, 2013 - 3:13 pm

    Cookie, is it a trick question? Hmmn, let's review: Refuses Obamacare and pays the tax. Would the individual be refused healthcare? There may be something that speaks to this on page 1,583 of the law, but I would guess they could still go to the ER, or they could buy from a health insurance company not competing on the exchanges. I'm probably wrong, what's the correct answer?

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 3:16 pm

    Dink, there was a bill introduced to cut the pay of congressional rep's and the biggest opponent of it was also one of the wealthiest. PIGlosi. She said a pay cut would be beneath the dignity of members of congress. Of course this is the same surviving brain donor who said its a false argument to say we have a spending problem. And of course who doesn't know the difference between the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. I remember when she was going to drain the swamp but she is still there. She was also going to do pay-go, what a freeeeekin joke. http://www.mediaite.com/online/nancy-pelosi-against-congressional-pay-cuts-we-need-dignity-of-the-job-that-we-have-rewarded/

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  • James E.October 14, 2013 - 3:22 pm

    Going to putter outside in my yard, be back later.

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  • Dink LaneOctober 14, 2013 - 3:31 pm

    COOKIE: "Pay-as-you-go" was scrapped with every one of the House bills voted on AND passed by Republicans-only THIS MONTH.....and Pelosi (Sorry you can't say her name correctly) and her fellow Dems did NOT vote for any of those bills.... I can't find that "cut-congressional-pay" bill..... but "Unprecedented" House Resolution 365 passed Oct. 1 (14 days ago) blocks ALL BILLS from anyone submitting a bill to the House floor EXCEPT Eric Cantor.... No other Republican.... No other Democrat..... (for you Evelyn....http://thehill.com/homenews/house/328413-dems-decry-midnight-rule-change)... to KEEP House members from VOTING ON A CLEAN BILL..... so IF it wasn't approved.... It was the REPUBLICANS who didn't approve it.

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  • cookie65October 14, 2013 - 3:41 pm

    Dink, here is piglosi in 2009 on pay go. Funny how the debt increased 60% or $5.34trillion while she was speaker. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmiU_C2UEdM

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 4:52 am

    The psychology of being a useful idiot. The research highlights the disturbing reality that once an idea has been implanted in people’s minds, it can be difficult to dislodge. Denials inherently require repeating the bad information, which may be one reason they can paradoxically reinforce it. Indeed, repetition seems to be a key culprit. Things that are repeated often become more accessible in memory, and one of the brain’s subconscious rules of thumb is that easily recalled things are true.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 5:33 am

    There are some fascinating terms being tossed around by the lapdog media to describe the unexpected success of obamacare. Are these people who feed the lofo voters their daily pabulum of leftists groupthink awakening from their collective comas? It would be advisable for those who have envisioned the hope and change obozocare would deliver to steer clear of any reality based information until a complete revision of history is made available. This would allow you to remain, uninterrupted in the afterglow of your magic world of make-believe. Your welcome.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 6:06 am

    With so many other obama failures on the front burner worthy of discussion, something happened the other day that shouldn't go unnoticed. There was a glitch in the EBT card system that resulted in a very telling event. It should NOT be ignored. When these obama voters (at walmart) discovered there was no limit on their EBT cards they emptied the store. A woman with 79 cents on here EBT card purchased $700 worth of groceries. There is a psychology at work here that speaks volumes. I realize leftists lack any intellectual curiosity and inquisitiveness but for the rest of us this small event is a very disturbing indication of the America the left has created. We have an ever growing portion of the population who have successfully been made to have but a single function in our society, feeding at the government trough. When even the slightest glitch in that trough occurs they instantaneously become animals. This is dangerous beyond words. For the left it has been fully intentional. Making individuals subservient to a benevolent government is the pathway to control and power. We have a ticking timebomb. What happens when for some reason or another the system the left uses to control what they have created fails?

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 6:34 am

    Does anyone recall me saying the first 2,700 pages was just the index? http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/11588500-words-obamacare-regs-30x-long-law

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  • EvelynOctober 15, 2013 - 6:53 am

    Cookie: Regulations totaling 11,588,500 words PROVES Obama cares about our health. Where can I lay my hands on a copy? I've just now calculated that it will take me about 643 hours to read them, provided I manage full comprehension in one go.

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  • EvelynOctober 15, 2013 - 7:15 am

    ”IF THIS GOVERNMENT REALLY CARED ABOUT YOUR HEALTH THEY WOULD: • Go after toxic adjutants in vaccines instead of indemnifying the vaccine makers. • Take SSRIs off the market instead of blaming the guns for the violence these medications cause. • Be honest about the harm caused by GMO crops, or at least mandate GMO labeling so consumers can make their own choices. • Remove harmful additives to food like MSG and aspartame. • Force the users of Monosodium Glutamate to put that on the label instead of allowing euphemistic and deceptive labeling. • Do something about the 400,000 Americans killed by medical mistakes every year. • Look for ways to lower health care costs, not raise them. ********** The government doesn't care about your health. All they care about is dipping a little deeper into your wallet with higher costs and lower benefits that yield higher tax revenues with which to lure lenders when the debt ceiling is finally raised.” (Mike Rivero)

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 7:16 am

    Of course he cares Evelyn, unlike all those uncaring obstructionists and naysayers who are laughing themselves silly with "I told you so." It is only permissible to discuss the intentions, discussing the results is racism. And there in lies the method by which the leftist experiment never has to answer for its complete lack of success. THEY CARE.

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  • EvelynOctober 15, 2013 - 7:22 am

    Here is one of those "results": PATIENTS PAY BEFORE SEEING DOCTOR AS DEDUCTIBLES SPREAD

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 7:24 am

    Evelyn, 634 hours is roughly the time obama has spent on the golf course. Please note the number of times the phrase, "as the secretary shall determine" is used as you plow thru the 11,588,500 words.

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  • EvelynOctober 15, 2013 - 7:36 am

    Cookie: Yesterday I saw a very good video on that thing about "the Secretary shall determine", happily saving the doctors a lot of bother. But about those 634 hrs, another useful calculation. Assuming that most people would not want to devote more than 8 hrs/day to reading those regs (again, with total retention/comprehension), the job could be done in only 80 days.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 7:52 am

    Around obamacare in 80 days. Sounds like a movie. "We have to pass it so we can find out what's in it" will turn out to be the equivalent of the Nazi's telling the Jews, "you have to get on the train to find out where it is going."

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  • EvelynOctober 15, 2013 - 7:55 am

    Here's a guy who says (16 min. video) that he's read the Act (not to be confused with the regs). He says, "Anybody who supports this Bill, unless they are directly working in Congress, they have absolutely no idea what this Bill is about." This video is NOT RECOMMENDED for any of the party faithful, John.

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  • EvelynOctober 15, 2013 - 7:58 am

    I'm now very nervous that someone will come back and say I'm living in a "Teahadist bubble".

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 8:04 am

    "Raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure." -- barack obama, 2006. Making a complete mockery of leftism is as easy as falling off a log. They provide all the material. All you have to do is repeat their own words and give them credit for what they actually accomplish.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 8:07 am

    Evelyn, being slandered by the left is a badge of honor. Patrice is concerned for the welfare of my kids. My kids ribs hurt from laughing over that.

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  • Dee#1October 15, 2013 - 8:22 am

    Totally off topic, but news from Government Motors---------General Motors has boosted prices of its redesigned 2014 full-size pickups $1,500 – enough to pay for a $1,500 rebate currently offered on most models. "It's the oldest game in the book – raise the price and raise the rebate. It's a marketing message," says Karl Brauer, senior analyst at Kelley Blue Book. Shoppers have come to expect a rebate, and are less attentive to whether the price of the vehicle has gone up commensurately, he says. ------it brings a smile, so just beware.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 8:36 am

    Excellent video Evelyn, my oldest son introduced me to Shakaama a few months back. He has some other very good videos. It is all TRUE. The elimination of individual liberty and freedom is the intended outcome of leftism. When the Truth becomes hatespeech.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 8:41 am

    Here is an example of defining hatespeech. http://www.ijreview.com/2013/10/87043-fox-us-army-defines-christian-ministry-domestic-hate-group/

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 8:43 am

    Here is an example of the rewards offered to those who assist in the overthrow of freedom and liberty. http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/328459-labor-gets-obamacare-olive-branch-

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  • rodOctober 15, 2013 - 9:58 am

    Mr. Garon, I see you read these posts, but answer at your convenience, so why don’t you demonstrate your sincerity and ANSWER Cookie’s legitimate question, “will failure to comply with the individual mandate result in the denial of healthcare“? If you don’t answer then it is obvious you don’t have the intellect… or perhaps the integrity to face real facts. Your leftist talking points are the same as Vern, just more Obamavomit, prove me wrong. Speaking of leftist integrity, how about this question? I posted this question yesterday… and didn’t get a SINGLE intelligent comment… except from James’ changing the subject as usual when confronted with reality. “Obamacare was passed by the senate, not as a 'tax' but a 'fee mandate'. Obama clearly kept reiterating it is, "NOT A TAX" so it could pass both houses. As a tax it would have required 67% instead of the simple majority of 51%, it would have failed in BOTH houses. But the SCOTUS said, "for the ACA to be legitimate we must define it as a tax". "OK" Obama said, "IT IS A TAX". Well then, it clearly IS a tax, the ultimate verdict belongs to the Supreme Court, as the libs tout, so why not take a re-vote on the ACA? Why doesn't the pelosi/reid/obama regime abort it, they are good at that and take a legitimate re-count? It's because they have no honesty, no scruples, not a whit. Their credo is spy & lie, deceive & achieve their Marxist State. It is their absolute goal, their picture of politics, their pornography”. Mr. Garon, in your opinion, doesn’t this sham deserve a re-vote? You have impressed us with your many letters as a self professed conscientious member of the community, so why don’t you inform us… again, go ahead Mr. Garon, how about an answer to these two questions?

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  • Dee#1October 15, 2013 - 10:12 am

    Yes Garon, please answer Rod's questions.

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 15, 2013 - 10:15 am

    John? Rod's questions are reasonable. Even Robert Gibbs Calls for Firings Over 'Excruciatingly Embarrassing' ACA roll-out. Why not re vote, John?

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 10:23 am

    Rod, I tried to answer that question for Cookie, but she didn't respond. I missed your question, as I usually skim over your stuff. First, I asked Cookie if that was a trick question: "Will failure to comply with the individual mandate result in the denial of health care?" This may be covered somewhere in the ACA, but here is my guess: If you don't comply, you pay the fine (tax), and then you can pay cash for health care, join a health plan outside the state exchanges, or go to the ER. So, no you will not be denied health care. That's my guess. I await Cookie and you to tell me the correct answer.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 10:35 am

    Cookie/Rod, the correct answer?

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 10:47 am

    You clamor for an answer and then you go silent??? What's the correct Tea/Republican answer?

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 10:51 am

    James, you attempted to answer questions you asked and not the question I asked. My question was, "if an individual chooses not to submit to obamacare and have their tax confiscated by the IRS will they be denied healthcare?" YES or NO.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 10:54 am

    James, I have to say you have reached the bottom with assigning any answer to the tea/republicans. They didn't write the law.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 10:57 am

    Cookie, as I noted below, I believe the answer to be no. Am I correct or wrong (and please show your work).

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 11:01 am

    James, if they won't be denied healthcare why would they bother to pay for a bunch of stuff they don't want and can't afford?

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 11:04 am

    It appears the House will not support the Senate proposal to prevent default. I believe the Tea Party wants default, so they can see what the president will do -- and then impeach him while the country goes down the drain. True patriots who should be outlawed as enemies of the state.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 11:06 am

    Cookie, well then they should bother. So does your answer mean you believe they would be denied health care?

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 11:08 am

    *** shouldn't

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 11:09 am

    James, everyone who cherishes freedom is an enemy of the state. Washington DC and the federal government are not the reason this country exists. Does We The People have any meaning for you?

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 11:11 am

    Cookie, as we have discussed many times the Health Care Corporation lobbyists wrote the ACA under the cover provided by Senator Baucus. And, again, if people don't sign up for Obamacare, you are saying they will be denied health care -- right?

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  • EvelynOctober 15, 2013 - 11:13 am

    I'm going to weigh in on this question -- an important one, IMHO -- while prefacing my statement with an "I don't know". However . . . In time it could well happen that people without approved health insurance might be denied health care, depending upon which additional totalitarian measures the government is willing to impose. The method could be as simple as threatening to terminate any health care provider's right to practice, should they be found to be caring for persons without "proper" insurance. If sicking the IRS on people doesn't work, other measures are available. At this point in our country's civil devolution, anything is possible.

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  • Dee#1October 15, 2013 - 11:13 am

    Cookie, thank you for the perfect comeback. However, he still hasn't answer your question.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 11:13 am

    Cookie, we the people has meaning, but the Tea Party does not speak for we the people. They speak for the South will rise again.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 11:14 am

    James, you are doing an excellent job of illustrating the TRUE point of my question. We have a law passed by the left that has exploded to 11.5 million words and you can't give me an answer to the most basic question about it and yet you wholeheartedly support it.

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  • rodOctober 15, 2013 - 11:17 am

    Yeh, “Necessity is the mother of invention”. But inventing obamacare did nothing to alleviate the huge costs created by insurance companies, it is a failure by any standard within the original intent of the legislation, LOWER HEALTHCARE COSTS. It is successful however as the largest government takeover of a significant arm of our economy in US History. Obamacare is less about medicine and much more about control. From the beginning it sidestepped every conventional hoop to lawhood, and will ultimately fail because of it. And as we know “Failure is an orphan”, watch how quickly leftists wash their hands of this mess after 2014 midterm elections. The answer to lower medical costs could have begun with much simpler, more honest legislation. Doctors, administrators, pharmaceuticals, hospitals and regulators could have been held to a military standard, aka caps, with out the offensive personal mandate. Insurance companies would get efficient immediately… and honest, with criminal indictment legislation. I wonder how Romneycare is fairing?

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 11:18 am

    James, you and Evelyn have discussed the lobbyists and healthcare providers input on the law. I have never weighed in on that topic. Evelyn has the right idea about healthcare denial in our future.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 11:19 am

    You ask the question, and when I try to answer it you claim I didn't answer it. TELL US, WHAT IS THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION!!

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 11:22 am

    Rod, I read the other day that Romneycare has become unraveled once it was implemented into the state exchanges.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 11:24 am

    James, call piglosi and ask her, unless she still doesn't know what's in it.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 11:26 am

    Cookie, I have no need to call anyone. I can ask the person (you) who asked the question, and has the answer which you won't reveal to us. You are not coming off well on this and for all to see.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 11:27 am

    So if you don't have the answer to your own question, we are finished with this.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 11:27 am

    James, regardless of the answer it makes the left liars. If they are denied, then the left are liars because obamacare was healthcare for all. If they aren't denied it makes the left liars because people can get healthcare without healthcare coverage.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 11:29 am

    So it was a trick question. Try to be more upfront in the future.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 11:35 am

    James, besides food, which the left already rules over a large swath of the population with, is there a better tool to rule over people with than access to their healthcare? And you thought it was about healthcare.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 11:38 am

    Cookie, if you believe the ACA is designed to rule the world, then enjoy. Irrational beliefs are not capable of being debated.

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  • EvelynOctober 15, 2013 - 11:58 am

    James: Cookie didn't write about ruling "the world". Her words were "a large swath of the population", and in context, I take this to mean the U.S. population. Cookie: Correct me if I've misunderstood.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 11:39 am

    Still James, I did not write the law. I am simply curious enough to do what you have obviously not done. Which is ask some simple questions. Yet you blindly believe this is good for us without question. No wonder obozo got re-elected.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 11:40 am

    OK, I'm off to get a blood test. I hate blood tests because I have no visible veins on the insides of my elbows and they have to dig and dig and dig before they hit a gusher. Later.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 11:46 am

    James, I sure am glad I have no historical evidence to back up my point of view. And no track record of leftism around the world throughout human history. Wake up James. This isn't a game.

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  • Dee#1October 15, 2013 - 11:49 am

    Longhofer, you are using language taken the Soviet Politburo, a communist dictatorship, "enemies of the State".

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  • Dee#1October 15, 2013 - 11:52 am

    Add from----"taken from the Soviet Politburo"

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 12:10 pm

    Evelyn, you are correct. James has a knack for adding on to things people say. It is part of the tactic to paint everyone as an extremist. Misrepresenting what people say and believe when confronted with uncomfortable facts. He isn't alone. Everyone who supports endless government does it.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 12:16 pm

    OK, running out the door. Evelyn, ruling the world, Cookie's world, not the globe. Dee and Cookie and Evelyn, enemies of the state? A term that goes back to the Romans in BC and AC -- good try to make me a Soviet. You have to know history if you want to assign labels to people. Later.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 12:20 pm

    In fact Evelyn, it is one of the ways a person gives away their ideology without knowing it. A keen observer will notice it every time.

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 15, 2013 - 12:29 pm

    "Running out the door" = retreat = what do we do when the enemy is in retreat? Colonel's rules = run down and annihilate.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 12:31 pm

    Phil, I laughed so loud at that I woke up my lazy dogs.

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 15, 2013 - 12:32 pm

    poor doggies!

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  • Dee#1October 15, 2013 - 12:46 pm

    Thank you Phil. Laughter is good for the soul.

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  • R J CarterOctober 15, 2013 - 12:52 pm

    That's funny, but I lost $5 bucks to my wife ....I bet her that today's "be back later" retreat by James would be one of the ol stand-bys, either Home Depot or the doggie vet....She said it would be something new...Dang-it...

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  • Dee#1October 15, 2013 - 1:04 pm

    Enemies of the State---------The NKVD was handed a list of those who were now labelled ‘enemies of the state’ – effectively the Bolshevik Party’s Old Guard – for example, Kamenev, Zinoviev and Bukharin. Anyone associated with these men was also under suspicion. They were put on trial at heavily manipulated show trials where the verdict was never in doubt. The show trials had to prove their guilt preferably with a very public admission of betraying the revolution and therefore the people.---------in modern context this is a term for policy of the extermination of opponents to the Communist system. And everyone in our age range knows that fact.

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 15, 2013 - 1:05 pm

    R. J. - crops burned, buildings torched, livestock slaughtered women, children and little doggies too - no mercy!

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  • R J CarterOctober 15, 2013 - 1:30 pm

    After googling "Enemies of the State" the only places and times the term was ever used politically throughout history was in Ancient Rome, the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany and the Obama administration when defining Edward Snowden, the American computer specialist who leaked details of government mass surveillance programs to the press.....P.S....Nancy Pelosi just stepped up to a microphone for 15th time today.....I swear, looking at her is like staring straight into the face of CRAZY....

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  • Dee#1October 15, 2013 - 1:36 pm

    Thank you RJ., you did a more complete search than I did. And I admire your fortitude in watching The ex-speaker 15 times in one day. I CPU Don't do it.

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  • Dee#1October 15, 2013 - 1:38 pm

    CPU was supposed to be couldn't. Some day I hope to get use to this iPad.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 1:39 pm

    Transgender woman is suing after being denied her/its free mammogram at planned parenthood. It seems the Center for Disease Control uses science to determine gender and not political correctness. The sneaky and slippery ways of leftism. Just when you think they are on your side and looking out for you, you find out the truth. By then, like millions in history have learned the HARD way, it is tooooo late. People who crave power never have any intent on using it for good. http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=360028

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 1:48 pm

    I saw a bumper sticker that said, "obamacare, signed, sealed, delivering." It is distressing to realize how many hapless souls out there have never had an original thought. Every last thing that exists between their ears was planted there by others and they are completely oblivious to how ignorant they are.

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  • Fran DuchampOctober 15, 2013 - 1:48 pm

    "Sustainable Development" Privileges the Few: " Nomenclature and in particular, catchy phrases and slogans, are integral to the institution and leadership of political action and violence as well as simplifying or condensing the rationale for such action into neat and all encompassing phraseology. Take for example, “from each according to ability, to each according to need.” This trite phrase uttered by Bolsheviks encapsulated the raison d’être and legitimized the terror inflicted by their foot soldiers against “bloodsuckers” and “enemies of the state” who were murdered and relieved of their property. Who was a bloodsucker or enemy of the state was decided upon by Bolshevik leadership." The Virginia Land Rights Coalition http://www.vlrc.org/articles/181.html Interesting point of veiw on "sustainibility" "In 1987 a new but eerily similar political term was coined — “sustainable development” — which is defined as follows: Development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs.

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  • Fran DuchampOctober 15, 2013 - 1:52 pm

    "Coercive communism is a failure because it consists of a self-appointed elite forcing needs and abilities upon people against their will. Needs and abilities cannot be determined arbitrarily by leaders; they stem from each person according to their own unique value system. Similarly, “enlightened” leaders should not be able to force us to act according to their assessment of what future generations’ needs may be. Yet this is precisely what they propose." same short article as before.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 2:01 pm

    Coercive communism and socialism have something in common, the outcome.

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  • Fran DuchampOctober 15, 2013 - 2:25 pm

    Cookie...it is an interesting site...I read what is happening in all states...because their "fights" are coming here...or have already arrived. http://www.vlrc.org/

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  • R J CarterOctober 15, 2013 - 3:04 pm

    Getting back on topic "The delusions of George Alger"....I was just curious so looked up both John Garon's and George Alger's pages on Facebook...Mr. Alger's page contains solely pictures of beautiful mountain scenery, friends and loving family....Mr. Garon's is nothing less than an entire page of rabid leftist talking points......So just ask yourself, if you had to choose, who would you rather spend Thanksgiving with???....

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 3:14 pm

    Note to R.J.: You wife is a wise woman as she recognizes that people go to Home Depot, the Vet, and leave the net to go get blood tests. Note to Phil: Going to lunch or getting a blood test is not a retreat from the comments on this site. To say so is cute, but not factual. I glad Cookie laughed because laughs are hard to get these days. Note to Cookie: Cookie, it is apparent to all you don't like Obamacare. But, your ranting and raving will not cause it to go away. If you think it will collapse of its own weight, then sit back and await the collapse. As for my defending Obamacare, not really the case as I think it is a giveaway to the Health Insurance Corporations -- I have always advocated single payer (Medicare for All). Now, Phil, can I take a moment to get into the kitchen and get a cup of coffee? Thanks.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 3:15 pm

    OK, back from "retreating" into the kitchen for coffee.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 3:18 pm

    R.J., I'm going to have to go with Mr. Garon because Mr. Alger has caught the austerity virus and therefore the turkey at his house will be carved out of tofu.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 3:26 pm

    James, did an elevated blood pressure make accessing a vein easier? You don't often type in all caps.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 3:30 pm

    James, given the state of our social security and the fact that millions have not saved for retirement do you think it is a good idea to force those in the youth of life to spend what little money they have on healthcare premiums vs saving for retirement? Where will their retirement money come from? How far down the road can we kick the can?

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 3:30 pm

    I typed in CAPs to solicit an answer from you on your faux question. A question in which you said the answer of yes was the fault of the liberals and a no was the fault of the liberals. Now, relax and await the collapse of Obamacare.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 3:31 pm

    Cookie, I believe they should have Medicare for all.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 3:33 pm

    Social Security -- all they have to do is lift the cap.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 3:33 pm

    Where is Phil? Where is R.J.? Where is Dee? Have they all retreated?

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  • Dee#1October 15, 2013 - 4:44 pm

    Longhofer, I went to Markam to deliver my $100. I hope you have done the same. As for rest of your comments, just the regular drivel

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 3:35 pm

    Actually, I understand they are doing stuff and will return when they can.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 3:36 pm

    James, there is nothing faux about the question. It is a legitimate question. Not only should it be answered but it illustrates a number of things just by asking it. It illustrates that you and lots of others blindly support something based entirely on your misplaced faith in those who dreamed it up and it illustrates the left can't answer it without being liars.

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  • cookie65October 15, 2013 - 3:38 pm

    James, you dodged another question. SHOULD YOUNG ADULTS BE FORCED TO PAY FOR OLDER PEOPLES HEALTHCARE OR SAVE THIER MONEY FOR RETIREMENT?

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 3:38 pm

    Cookie, reading comprehension problems? I just said that I don't support ObamaCare, I support Medicare for All.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 3:42 pm

    Cookie, that is a question you should ask of Tom, our carpetbagger Representative. He is in a position to change the laws. I am not.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 3:44 pm

    Cookie, I have no intention of going down the trail of nonsensical questions, which in this case, can only be answered by Tom

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  • R J CarterOctober 15, 2013 - 3:54 pm

    James....It's OK...I'm just a few feet away....Between 3:00-5:00, I always retreat to the living room to watch "Have Gun Will Travel" & "Wyatt Earp"....

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 3:57 pm

    Evelyn, at some point in the future the new shows of Foyle's War will be on Netflix. I watched the new shows on Masterpiece Theatre, and they were excellent. So keep an eye out on Netflix for them.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 4:01 pm

    R.J., right -- watching TV away from the computer is not retreat. And, what happened to all the great cowboy shows we watched as kids? Now, it's serial killer shows and reality shows.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 4:06 pm

    Oh, and Dancing with the Stars. Another modern TV show.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 4:14 pm

    Going to go away to do stuff (I know, I know, retreating). Will be back later. Say bad things about me and I'll answer your comment(s) when I return.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 4:52 pm

    Dee, I mailed mine on Saturday, they should receive it in the mail today. The K9 fund will be a success, I'm more concerned about the young lady who needs a support dog. Concern because their web site is goofed up (Phil could get through, I could not -- wonder if it has something to do with me being on a Mac and Phil using Windows (if he is))? I also mailed my contribution to the young lady, but have no idea is it is going well or not. Phil has the grandmothers email address, maybe he could check with her and give us an update. And, Dee, thanks for your drivel support.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 4:57 pm

    Question: If the nation defaults, will the TBills be paid first and the pay of the Congress second? Anyone?

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 4:58 pm

    Perhaps Tom could let us know.

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  • R J CarterOctober 15, 2013 - 5:04 pm

    James...I don't know about T-bills, but I did hear that Congress is working late tonight and they just ordered a bunch of pizzas to be delivered....I'd bet taxpayers are on the hook for those....

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 5:08 pm

    R.J., I hope they ordered the Supreme extra large. Pizza is good, isn't it? Maybe it will melt their hearts.

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  • R J CarterOctober 15, 2013 - 5:18 pm

    Added, Wyatt Earp was good tonight...Funny thing is Wyatt Earp was really not the straight-laced lawdog he was made out to be in all the TV westerns....More accurate accounts of his history tells us Wyatt, his brothers, along with Doc Holiday were more outlaws than anything else and into all manner of crime....I love wild west history, I've been to Wyatt Earps grave....Twice......

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 5:24 pm

    R.J., buried in Coloma (Sp?), right? Was he still dead the second time you visited? I've been to the Yuma prison a couple of times to view the picture of a female inmate who was in the prison in 1895. A beautiful woman.

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 15, 2013 - 5:25 pm

    SS tomorrow - yippee!

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 5:26 pm

    Phil, the third Wednesday of the month is our happy time. Wonder how we will do on the third Wednesday in November?

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 15, 2013 - 5:31 pm

    I'll get mine. Sorry 'bout yours. During your retreat your records were nuked.

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  • R J CarterOctober 15, 2013 - 5:31 pm

    Wyatt Earp's Grave. Hills of Eternity Memorial Park . Colma, CA. (South San Fransisco)...Him and his wife, Josephine are buried together in the Jewish section of the cemetery there...She was Jewish ...

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  • dough boyOctober 15, 2013 - 5:31 pm

    Q: "Waiter, will my pizza be long?" A: "No sir, it will be round!"

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  • dough boyOctober 15, 2013 - 5:33 pm

    Q: When can a pizza marry a hot dog? A: After they have a very frank relationship!

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  • dough boyOctober 15, 2013 - 5:35 pm

    A blonde went to buy a Pizza and after ordering, the assistant asked the blonde if she would like her pizza cut into six pieces or twelve. “Six please” she said, “I could never eat twelve!

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 5:37 pm

    dough boy, if they had a child it would be called a Frankinpizza.

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  • dough boyOctober 15, 2013 - 5:49 pm

    Very good, Mr. E. Your prize is a free one-year subscription to Mt. Democrat online Comments and the standard senior discount on all Round Table pizzas.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 5:53 pm

    You mean there is a standard old folks discount at Roundtable? They never told me.

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  • dough boyOctober 15, 2013 - 5:54 pm

    You've got to ask; they always give it when you do.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 6:02 pm

    If I ask nice will they give me 20%?

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 6:03 pm

    Actually, at the blood place today I slammed my fist on the counter and demanded my senior discount. They just looked at me funny.

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  • dough boyOctober 15, 2013 - 6:08 pm

    Sorry. Fresh out of giveaways, even for righteous indignation.

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  • dough boyOctober 15, 2013 - 6:09 pm

    You don't get to name your discount! It's either 10% or 15%, not sure which.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 6:17 pm

    Dough boy, Roundtable can take their discount and shove it (is there a nicer way to say this?). I pay full price when I contract for a pizza.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 6:23 pm

    Note to self: Order pizza under phony name to prevent retaliation.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 6:31 pm

    OK, looks like everyone (except dough boy) has "retreated" to avoid debating with me. So, I'm going to wander off and return later.

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  • DavidOctober 15, 2013 - 10:12 pm

    Can someone explain to me how they can get social security and medicare and rant and rave teaparty beliefs. wow hypocrisy at its best! how about you Phil?

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  • Dee#1October 16, 2013 - 10:19 am

    David, it might have something to do with the fact that, with a gun to or heads, we paid into the trust fund. The fact that the Government stole the money and replaced it with worthless T-bonds that they don't want to redeem is not the fault of the Seniors. Here are poll numbers the explain a little clearer the types of policies that Tea Party members think might help save Social Security for YOU and your children. It is way, way past time there was a serious discussion regarding reform of Social Security/Medicare.-------[Skocpol and Williamson] make abundant use of polling data to argue that when it comes to slashing government spending, Tea Partiers draw the line at those two programs [Social Security and Medicare]. But their empirical case is a bit one-sided. For example, they cite a Public Policy Polling survey in which Tea Partiers, like the rest of the population, overwhelmingly preferred raising the Social Security tax to having “benefits cut and the retirement age increased to age 69.” But just a few months later, at the height of the debate over Paul Ryan’s plan to slash and privatize Medicare, the same polling firm found that when asked to choose between “raising taxes on the wealthiest 2% of Americans or privatizing Medicare” to close the deficit, the general population favored the former (64% to 22%) while the Tea Partiers favored the latter (52% to 36%). Skocpol and Williamson note a New York Times poll in which 62% of Tea Partiers say Social Security and Medicare are “worth the cost” to taxpayers. (Not hugely different from the 76% of the general population who said so.) But in the same poll, self-described supporters of “smaller government” were asked whether they would favor it if it “required cuts in spending on domestic programs such as Social Security, Medicare, education, or defense.” Only 29% of the general population were willing to go that far. Among Tea Partiers the number was 67%. Now… it’s indisputable that Tea Partiers make some kind of conceptual distinction between universal programs like Social Security and Medicare and other government programs. But this says less about the Tea Party than it does about universal social programs. It is easy for liberals to point to the Tea Partiers and call them bigots because they make a distinction between “people on welfare” and “normal people.” But in fact it’s the state that has made that distinction. When the state operates a means-tested or other conditional program, it inspects each citizen and stamps him or her as belonging to one category or the other, either as part of a “food stamp class” or a “normal American” class. By contrast, no one is perceived as being part of the “Social Security class” — or, rather, everyone is perceived as belonging to it together.

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 15, 2013 - 10:34 pm

    David, you'll have to ask somebody who rants and raves Tea Party beliefs. I've never attended a Tea Party meeting, bought or distributed literature or spoken on behalf of a Tea Party member. My specialty is ranting and raving over the toxic pool of disinformation, misinformation, and false representations concerning EID that trace to Greg Prada's activities on EID's Cost of service Committee. Prada is poison. My ranting and raving is focused on Greg Prada claptrap.

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  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 11:06 pm

    I do have to agree that Phil has not espoused Tea Party beliefs. He's not Tea Party.

    Reply | Report abusive comment
  • James E.October 15, 2013 - 11:08 pm

    And with that endorsement, I'm off to bed. Tomorrow.

    Reply | Report abusive comment
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