Friday, April 18, 2014
PLACERVILLE, CALIFORNIA
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Neighborhood ‘chat’ heats up over Cedar Ravine roundabout

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From page A1 | May 03, 2013 | 61 Comments

They came bearing anonymously delivered flyers that urged them to stop the return of the roundabout, but it was apparent that many of the 60 + attendees of the April 30 Neighborhood Chat between community members and community leaders, did not come with open minds.

The topic of the Chat, as introduced by Placerville Mayor Wendy Mattson, was to “make a new ending to an old issue” — the replacement of the Clay Street Bridge, the intersection of Clay and Main streets, including realignment with Cedar Ravine and the small park along Hangtown Creek, east of Clay Street.

In reference to the Clay Street Bridge realignment with Cedar Ravine project, in existence prior to 2005 and approved by City Council after going through public hearings, the mayor mentioned mistakes made by the city — ineffective listening, unclear lines of communication and public distrust of  local government. She also referred to the public’s mistake of using misinformation mixed with fact to fuel resistance to the roundabout that was approved as part of the realignment project.

“If  the public doesn’t want the roundabout, then I won’t vote for it, ” said Mattson. “But let’s look at the facts and explore the options equally with no foregone conclusions.”

City Manager Cleve Morris introduced the plan for the evening: a statement of the problem, the options, the review process, next steps, and a discussion. But, an hour into the two-hour Chat, only two parts of the problem — the Clay Street Bridge and the realignment with Cedar Street — had been discussed.

Many people in the audience stated they did not believe there was any problem with the Clay Street Bridge.

Caltrans inspected the Clay Street Bridge and found the bridge to be “functionally obsolete,” said City Engineer Nate Stong. “It doesn’t meet today’s standards of safety.”

The bridge, built in 1940, is 18 1/2 feet wide — too narrow, with a sidewalk along one side, for two lanes of traffic going opposite directions. “The safety railings average only 30 inches instead of 42,” said Morris, “which poses a danger to pedestrians and cyclists.” The bridge is not built to withstand a 10-year flood storm and has the potential of flooding, said Morris.

Audience members questioned whether the city has to meet federal and state safety standards for the bridge. “No, we are not mandated to do so,” said Morris.

Sue Taylor, downtown property owner, said, “The bridge wouldn’t be built that way today, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t structurally sound.”

“Widening Clay Street would be a disaster for the small neighborhoods. It would increase the traffic, ” said resident Robyn Rawrers.” There is nothing wrong with the bridge. I think this is just a diversion to get free money for the roundabout.”

“Clay Street is a very busy street and the bridge is far too small to take the traffic load,” said resident Trey Washburn, who said he uses the bridge several times each day.” The cement is breaking down, cars can’t go two directions at once, the sidewalk is even with the street. It’s not a great bridge. It’s a mess.”

In the discussion about the safety of the intersection of Clay and Main streets, Morris said the closeness of the street creates conflict for those trying to turn left from Clay to Main. Traffic surveys put the service level of the intersection at “C” level during the a.m. rush hour, which is acceptable, but at an “F,” or failed level during the p.m. rush hour.

“Should Clay be aligned with Cedar Ravine to eliminate this problem?” asked Morris. Again, several audience members reiterated that they saw no problem with the intersection.

“I’ve owned property here for 13 years,” said Mark Hegarty. “I cross that bridge 30 times a week and I’ve never seen a traffic incident there.”

“There might not be a problem for you now,” said Michael Webb, Placerville Community Development director,” but what about in 15 years? A failed level now would be beyond failure by then.”

The realignment of Clay and Cedar Ravine streets could necessitate the removal of some parking space in the Ivy House parking lot and the relocation of the popular Farmers Market, both unpopular outcomes for many in the audience. Part of the discussion included the lack of sight distance for those turning from Clay onto Main due to the Community Pride garden at the corner.

“We met with the Caldwells (market managers) to discuss moving the Farmers Market across the creek to the trail area,” said Morris, “and they were excited about it. It might also solve the parking problem for the market. Or we could close Clay Street during the market.”

Additional parking spaces off Locust Street are a possibility to offset the loss from the Ivy House lot said Morris, with a net loss of about 20 downtown parking places.

Wilbur Howe, owner of C&H Auto, at the corner of Cedar Ravine and Main suggested resolving the sight issue difficulty by removing the oak tree in the garden and moving the cross walk farther up the street.

Options

“Here are our options,”said Webb. “We could do nothing… ” This option was greeted with wild applause and verbal approval from audience members. “We could widen Clay Street, replace the bridge and keep the alignment as it is; we could realign Clay with Cedar Ravine with a four-way stop intersection, a four-way signal intersection or a four-legged roundabout.”

Improvements on Clay Street, including widening the street, were a condition of approval for the Cottonwood Estates project. All but Phase 4 and 6 of the project have been completed and the city holds money the developer advanced for improvements. Marian Washburn, former mayor of Placerville, questioned the option of not making improvements to Clay Street, because the condition of approval is legally binding .

Any possible benefit of the formerly approved roundabout intersection option was not able to be discussed as the audience had already made up their minds.

“No roundabout. We’ve said it many times before and we’re saying it now,” said one member of the audience.  Another member used a flow dynamic analogy to predict that a roundabout would back up traffic onto Bedford during Apple Hill season.

“A roundabout moves traffic; it doesn’t promote a walkable city. No one spends money if they keep driving,” said Sue Rodman, resident. “With regard to the bridge, this isn’t just Hangtown Creek, it’s also the confluence of the Cedar Ravine Creek and the Cedar Ravine bridge is failing. I don’t think we have enough financing to address the whole problem.”

Review process

“The first step in the review process,” said Webb, “would be a design workshop for the community, which would be a discussion of all options and include bridge layouts, intersection layouts, parking, driveway access and streetscape design.”

The second step would be the preparation of a full environmental impact report, which would provide an analysis of all the options, impact on businesses and traffic, allow public input to a draft EIR and include comments of special agencies and the public and the response to those comments.

“This is a full disclosure document that allows the City Council to make a decision on any one of the options,” said Webb.

The third step in the review process would be public hearings for project decisions and the opportunity for further comment.

Funding

There is $2.45 million available in Congestive Mitigation Air Quality funding for the roundabout option, but only for the roundabout option. “It could also be used to prepare an EIR to explore all the options with equal weight as long as the roundabout was one of them,” said Webb.

“So there is no funding available for any other intersection option?” asked resident Phillip Berry.

An additional $1.6 million in Regional Surface Transportation Program funding is available for any of the intersection options. Traffic Impact Mitigation fee in the amount of $70,000 must be used for the widening of the Clay Street Bridge as it is from the Cottonwood Park Subdivision and can be used for the local match requirement of the Highway Bridge Program (HBP), which would then pay 100 percent of the cost of the bridge replacement.

If CMAQ and the HBP funds were not used for the bridge replacement or the roundabout intersection, the funds would be have to be returned to the federal pot to be used for other qualifying projects. The CMAQ funding cannot be used for road repair as one audience member suggested.

Next steps

Webb laid out the following steps if it is agreed to go ahead with the bridge replacement/realignment project: Placerville City Council would proceed with a consultant agreement for the design and EIR preparation; the design preparation workshop would be held; an EIR scoping and preparation; review of the draft EIR; preparation of final EIR and public hearings for the EIR and project design by spring of 2014.

Mayor Mattson suggested a design workshop to explore all the options before closing the door on the project. ”If the public doesn’t want the roundabout,” said Mattson again, “we won’t do it. But before saying no to this project and losing the money, let’s look at what we do want .”

“Any way we can get the money, we’ll do,” shouted a man from the back of the room. “Just don’t build the damn thing.”

After discussion about downtown parking as a more relevant problem and a request from Kathi Lishman to know whether the public wanted to improve the Clay Street Bridge and align the street with Cedar Ravine and what to do with the Clay and Main streets intersection before any design workshop is held Morris said the most likely prospect was to get input from City Council (all members were present at the Chat). “Then we’ll probably do something like the design workshop.”

Contact Wendy Schultz at 530 344-5069 or wschultz@mtdemocrat.net. Follow @wschultzMtDemo on Twitter.

LEAVE A COMMENT

Discussion | 61 comments

  • EvelynMay 02, 2013 - 1:03 pm

    "[Mayor Mattson] also referred to the public’s mistake of using misinformation mixed with fact to fuel resistance to the roundabout that was approved as part of the realignment project." ********** It would be helpful if Mayor Mattson would identify the prior alleged "misinformation".

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  • EvelynMay 02, 2013 - 1:09 pm

    MISINFORMATION? At the 8/9/2011 City Council meeting (then) Mayor David Machado said, “I guess what’s been the most amazing for me is hearing it from well respected people in the community that I trust and respect and that almost to a person I’m finding that there is no traction and no support for the Roundabout. …So, after months of talking with folks both in and outside the City I’m not finding very many people who support the Roundabout.” To which Councilor Mattson added: “It’s interesting that you bring this up tonight because I, too, have had very similar discussions.” ********** Had both Mayor Machado & Councilor Mattson's contacts all been deceived by a small band of people disseminating "misinformation"?

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  • EvelynMay 02, 2013 - 1:13 pm

    VIDEO: "Roundabout Discussion at Placerville Town Hall" - HERE

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  • EvelynMay 02, 2013 - 1:25 pm

    Regarding the lawsuit that stopped (temporarily?) the Roundabout that nobody seemed to want, at Tuesday's Neighborhood Chat Mayor Mattson said: "I recently learned that one of our businesses, one of our long-time businesses, was aggressively threatened if they didn’t put money in against the lawsuit of the City" (sic). Words like AGGRESSIVELY THREATENED have reasonably identifiable meanings and implications. On the face of it, what Mayor Mattson stated as fact may be sufficiently serious as to warrant a complaint to the police. Perhaps Mayor Mattson's informant should consider belatedly taking up the matter with the Placerville Police Department.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netMay 02, 2013 - 1:30 pm

    its about the trails...trails will win unless people say no to the money. http://www.edctc.org/A/AgendaITEMS/02-07-13/13E_12-17_two%20trails%20to%20design.pdf

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netMay 02, 2013 - 1:35 pm

    http://www.edctc.org/C/Non-Motorized/Pvle_NonMoto_Plan/Chapter_5_proposed.pdf remember there is no lawful mandate--these are un elected committees searching for grant monies. People already said "no" loud and clear

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  • DeeMay 02, 2013 - 1:55 pm

    After the meeting when talking about the issues, I was informed that this will allow the City to build a creekside park that will bring people downtown. Ah yes, a peaceful venue next to a two-lane road that has so much traffic we need to spend 4+ million dollars to fix it. However, we don't how much traffic, how many accidents, where these experts expect the vehicles that can't get through the roundabout will go,and where the funds will come from to fix the anticipated problems found by the construction. Meanwhile, Main Street will continue to whither away because potential customers won't be able to access Main Street nor find parking. Great plan!

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  • DeeMay 02, 2013 - 1:59 pm

    "don't how much traffic" should be "don't know how much traffic," etc.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netMay 02, 2013 - 2:02 pm

    2010...notes on roundabout. http://www.cityofplacerville.org/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?blobid=5188

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netMay 02, 2013 - 2:16 pm

    Walkable communities is an UN 21st century agenda item...article: Agenda 21 In New Hampshire: State Lawmaker Seeks To Keep Out Sustainability Program.Agenda 21 was adopted by the U.N. during the 1992 climate change summit in Brazil and has become a favorite target for conservatives and the Tea Party, who have said the document, which promotes land use planning and walkable communities, will eliminate personal property rights. Agenda 21, which has been backed by both Republican and Democratic presidents, does not contain the force of law in the United States.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/agenda-21-new-hampshire_n_2198466.html.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netMay 02, 2013 - 2:19 pm

    READ http://tinyurl.com/cfpqc5x all the same words are being used...pick anywhere--look up "walkable" communities...read

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  • Kirk W MacKenzieMay 02, 2013 - 4:16 pm

    Evelyn -- thanks for the link. The video was a rare combination of education and entertainment. Now I am confident the "natives" feel sufficiently empowered to deal with the ambitious dreams of the bureaucratic hand waivers and politicians. They understand that the process should start with what the people want, instead of what funding (tax dollars) can be snarfed. Power to the People, right on!

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  • Kirk W MacKenzieMay 02, 2013 - 4:50 pm

    Frances -- if the people want a "walkable community" and the parking that would make that possible -- as the people at this meeting clearly said -- are they being UN tools or good Americans pursuing their own interests?

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netMay 02, 2013 - 5:05 pm

    Kirk W MacKenzie...I dont care if people want it--but they said "no"--took it to court as a "no"...people have emailed a "no." thats my concern--how many no s does it take ? In my community--people say we want--yet those people make up less than 1% of the whole

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netMay 02, 2013 - 5:08 pm

    kirk--sorry the grant money is the issue for me--if people do not want to do something yet--let the money go. I feel we are rushing to solutions because we can only get the money "now"...look at other places--they have/or are now going bankrupt because of this rush.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netMay 02, 2013 - 5:13 pm

    Evenlyn--nice link...am watching vid now.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netMay 02, 2013 - 5:20 pm

    See Kirk--im still hearing leave the bridge alone--no round about.

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  • DeeMay 02, 2013 - 5:33 pm

    Kirk-The only agreement of the audience was no replacement of the bridge and no roundabout. When it was suggested that the next meeting should be about whether we actually want any project, we were told that the next meeting will be about design. But oh, no decision has been made. It would be nice if we couold have a discussion on whether we wish to keep Downtown Historic or a mishmash of modern projects that is killing the essence of our little city.

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  • Kirk W MacKenzieMay 02, 2013 - 9:10 pm

    Dee -- It was plain to me that when, several times, a person called for more parking there was general assent from the crowd. Several times, walkability was brought up as a concern, and there was general assent. And once, someone called for more parking to encourage walking -- because no-one buys anything if they are driving by in a car -- walking community and parking were brought up together...again, general assent. You are right, no "decision" was made, but it was clear the citizens were asserting control from the beginning and looked to be winning the battle. Time will tell, but my money is on the people, again.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netMay 02, 2013 - 9:20 pm

    Kirk my issue was the bridge and the roundabout--no one wants it--and yet here it is again 6 months later. They want something like this is my community--we are already walkable--so spending money on a "theme" walkable does not make sense.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netMay 02, 2013 - 9:32 pm

    http://www.cityofplacerville.org/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?blobid=5013

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netMay 02, 2013 - 9:34 pm

    DESIGN ALTERNATIVES There are three primary alternatives available for intersection design at Main Street and Cedar Ravine:  Alternative 1 incorporates Cedar Ravine and both legs of Main Street into a three leg roundabout configuration. Clay Street is maintained at its existing location, intersecting Main Street approximately 120’ west of Cedar Ravine.  Alternative 2 (Staff preferred) realigns Clay Street to bring it into a roundabout configuration along with Cedar Ravine and both legs of Main Street.  Alternative 3 is the “no project” alternative. The intersections at Cedar Ravine and Clay Street would remain as they are today. CMAQ funding would be forfeited under this alternative, and the city could be responsible to repay any CMAQ funds expended toward project development. If it doesnt go through--money has to be payed out.http://www.cityofplacerville.org/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?blobid=4081

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  • Kirk W MacKenzieMay 03, 2013 - 4:59 am

    Frances -- yeah, there was some fancy tap dancing going on around the funding and the roundabout. CMAQ funding is tied to the roundabout, but not necessarily building it...this is the sort of double-speak tap-dancing that drives people crazy: There is $2.45 million available in Congestive Mitigation Air Quality funding for the roundabout option, but only for the roundabout option. “It could also be used to prepare an EIR to explore all the options with equal weight as long as the roundabout was one of them”. Inefficient and dishonest government in action...

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  • EvelynMay 03, 2013 - 6:06 am

    Dee: Thanks for the creekside park info. I'm wondering if the City already has drawings showing what this would look like, the area encompassed, etc.

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  • EvelynMay 03, 2013 - 6:17 am

    Kirk: "Double-speak tap-dancing that drives people crazy." You've got that right!!! Dee's creekside park info. makes me wonder if current allusions to a Roundabout might not just be a feint on the City's part. You see, in terms of the Roundabout lawsuit's court order, the City is required to do an EIR if they go ahead with ANY PART of the project encompassed by that lawsuit. EIRs are expensive. If the City is "considering" going ahead with a Roundabout CMAQ funding will pay for the EIR, even if later the Roundabout is abandoned. Who knows? "Double-speak tap-dancing that drives people crazy."

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  • Kirk W MacKenzieMay 03, 2013 - 6:49 am

    Evelyn -- "EIRs are expensive"? I expect it's the consultants (bloated leeches) that are expensive.

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  • Phil VeerkampMay 03, 2013 - 7:16 am

    Kirk, I have a consulting firm, "MIGHTYFINE INC". My general manager is Dr. Jethro McSwift. I would like to consult with you regarding the strategies I might consider to land a round-about consulting gig with City. I spect that between our two consulting groups we might clear round about a couple hundred K.

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  • Phil VeerkampMay 03, 2013 - 7:34 am

    All I know is when me an' th' Missus are on road trips cross country and Karen (my GPS) shows a roundabout th' Missus cusses. She's usually driving. She HATES ROUNDABOUTS!!! There's usually two lanes - one for going around in circles, and one for escaping from going around in circles. If you are in the right lane you have to exit the roundabout. If you're not ready to exit the roundabout you have no room to merge left and you have to exit then Karen (the GPS) starts griping, "RECALCULATING!!!". And if you’re in the left lane you go in circles looking for the correct escape route. You’re looking for signs and merging traffic while swearing at each other. We HATE roundabouts!!! I think they were invented in Europe. Roundabouts are un-American. Screw ‘em!!!

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  • Kirk W MacKenzieMay 03, 2013 - 7:58 am

    Phil -- Doh! I know better than to generalize... My peeve is with the bloated leeches that feed off of local governments. Only $200k? I was thinking closer to $1M...

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  • robertdnollMay 03, 2013 - 9:00 am

    if you are unable to navigate a circle please turn in your drivers license

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  • Phil VeerkampMay 03, 2013 - 9:19 am

    Gee, robert, thanks for th' tip! I take it you're pro roundabout?

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  • James E.May 03, 2013 - 10:36 am

    I can navigate a roundabout and have done so in England and in Elk Grove (yes, they have a roundabout). Nevertheless, I am against the Placerville roundabout because it does not fit with a historic gold rush town. Obviously the Mayor thinks otherwise. FOLLOW THE MONEY.

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  • Phil VeerkampMay 03, 2013 - 1:09 pm

    James, just between you and me, I can navigate a roundabout too. I like "stop-take-your-turn-and-go" in Placerville. It's simple. It's paid for. It's Placerville.

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  • Kirk W MacKenzieMay 03, 2013 - 1:17 pm

    The pros and cons of roundabouts aren't the important part. I've dealt with them...not too bad, but don't like them. Stop signs have their own problems, and many don't understand that in order to claim the right away you have to actually stop, not Slow To Observe Police.

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  • Kirk W MacKenzieMay 03, 2013 - 1:23 pm

    I think it would be very helpful to identify each independent aspect of this problem set, and list the pros/cons of each independent of each other. For instance, realignment of Clay Street into a 4-point intersection with Main and Cedar Ravine has issues independent of whether that intersection is implemented as a roundabout, 4-way stop, or stop lights. Even the "Do Nothing" option has lots of pros and cons. This really is a difficult problem set, and needs to be analyzed by the people from multiple angles.

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  • DB SmithMay 03, 2013 - 1:43 pm

    Years back I couldn't believe it when they decided it was time to improve the traffic stop lights. They slowly starting replacing the very bright and colorful stop lights that you could clearly see what color they were with the new and improved kind. You know what I'm talking about. In the daytime with sun and with other reflections or if your angle isn't just right then you don't know what the hell is going on with the new and improved version. That is not an improvement. I don't like the idea of spending money on something that is already functional. If they do build the roundabout, I hope they would consider installing a new live webcam overlooking it. I think it would provide many years of entertainment.

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  • James E.May 03, 2013 - 2:23 pm

    Phil, amen. I want a strong government, but one not so strong that they build things that aren't needed.

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  • EvelynMay 03, 2013 - 5:21 pm

    THIS is a good a place as any to drop in the small matter of debt. - "California’s State/Local Governments $1.0 Trillion in Debt is $80,000 of debt per household" - If we pretend it isn't so, perhaps it will go away.

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  • EvelynMay 03, 2013 - 5:22 pm

    . . . AS good a place as any . . .

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  • DB SmithMay 03, 2013 - 5:40 pm

    Evelyn, This can't be. We were told by some newspapers, some media and some local commentators that we were balanced in California. I wonder if we should be concerned about the possibility of additional tax increases? More early release of prisoners? More open borders? More sanctuary cities? More fire fees(tax)? etc.etc..etc...etc....

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  • EvelynMay 03, 2013 - 6:17 pm

    DB: First you turned me in for an "abusive comment". Now you're sprouting "balanced budget" nonsense. Enough of your hoaxes.

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  • EvelynMay 03, 2013 - 6:20 pm

    Upon reflection, does one "sprout" nonsense, or "spout" nonsense? Being unfamiliar with nonsense, I'm not sure.

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  • LPMay 03, 2013 - 10:08 pm

    We need to stop these idiots (for the roundabout) that have no reason to be in office other than for profit. Who ever wants the "roundabout," did not grow up here. These idiots have no sentimental attachments to our city. We have to stop them from destroying our historical town over money. This has been going on for too long. Think of the impact this will have on the small mom and pop busineses in or town. It's like a bad cancer...NO ROUNDABOUT!! And Carol Patton if you read this, move back to where you came from!

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  • LPMay 03, 2013 - 10:24 pm

    One more thing...All drivers from out of town, and locals, will waste more fuel driving around in circles trying to figure out how to get out of this cluster, along with more accidents, people getting run over, etc. I've used roundabouts in England. Pain in the neck on top of driving on the other side of the road. Hey, there's an idea! Let's change what side of the road we drive on in Placerville! Maybe we won't need a roundabout!

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  • Can you hear me now?May 04, 2013 - 12:25 pm

    I have unfortunately lived off Clay for over 20 years, and have been eating s%@t sandwiches, served by the city ever since. I bought an old Victorian with the hopes of restoring it. I knew I would lose money on it but I thought it would be good for Pville. First Cottonwood, we fought it and predictably lost to developer and city. We were belittled in the town hall meetings, insinuating we were bigots and mouth breathers for fighting it. It went in, and all the traffic and noise and crap that comes with low income rentals came with it. If its so great why didn't they put it in their neighborhood? Then an absentee property owner wanted to put in duplexes on Grandview, we fought it as this is an area of Victorian single family homes. Again we lost and the duplexes are here with predicable results of renters with no vested interest in neighborhood. Then the highway 50 “improvements”, we put up with the construction noise at night for YEARS! And now, all the traffic noise has been directed to our neighborhood. Improvement for whom? It certainly wasn't the people who live here. What is funny, is the bridge on Clay is not a problem for the people who reside here, but immediately after the bridge where people park on both sides Clay (since the new parking fees) IS a problem. It is not wide enough for two lanes plus parking. I have been sideswiped twice losing a mirror both times. Trucks (the bullying kind) that come down Clay run out of room in their lane and instead of stopping they just swerve into my lane. I have complained to city but, you know...... So they are going to widen the bridge just to bottleneck it a few FEET north. So let me get this straight. They want to make these “improvements” because of traffic yet they are going to CLOSE Clay for farmers market. Wed and Sun? WHAT? To city council: Hey, how about you use the funds to redirect the noise you have imposed on us or sound walls or some sort of noise abatement for us. Its the least you can do. But I imagine you will simply give us the middle finger AGAIN!

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  • EvelynMay 04, 2013 - 2:17 pm

    Can you hear me now? - Let me summarize: Your experience with the City has not been good. Disappointing? Awful? Sounds like it. I hope you came to Tuesday's "Chat". If not, PLEASE COME to City Council next time ANY portion of this is on the agenda. It would be hard for the City to claim that any of the actual or intended "improvements" are to benefit present residents. I will never forget what one City Councilor said during the previous Roundabout discussions. At a hearing virtually every business owner located near the then-intended Roundabout spoke up to say that having to endure the chaos of construction again (having barely survived the Hwy 50 alterations) would destroy them. Said Councilor responded: “You say you are FOR business, but it sounds to me like you are anti-business.” Huhhhhhhhhhh???

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  • CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?May 04, 2013 - 3:18 pm

    Evelyn, Sadly no I was not there, I work in yolo county, can't make it home till late and really, at this point why?

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  • CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?May 04, 2013 - 3:48 pm

    Evelyn, I have to tell you what planning told me about the two scrapes I had on Clay. They said verbatem "you would have to be involved in a very serious accident before something could be done" I would say LOL but really I want to cry outloud.

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  • EvelynMay 04, 2013 - 4:15 pm

    Can You Hear Me Now? Would you be prepared to send a statement recounting your experiences over time and the associated futility? Among other things, your verbatim "you would have to be involved in a very serious accident before something could be done" is powerful. Do you recall (approx.) what year that was and who you spoke to? (One of the City's favorite lines -- doesn't matter what position, elected or paid -- is "I don't know. I wasn't there at the time.")

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  • EvelynMay 04, 2013 - 4:18 pm

    . . . toward the end, it should have read: doesn't matter what position, elected or STAFF. ********** City Councilors also are paid, though not extravagantly. Until recently I didn't know that.

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  • CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?May 04, 2013 - 5:37 pm

    Evelyn, yes I could send statement, but why? I can't recall who it was I spoke to as it was a group and they had little time for me as they were pouring over blueprints for Anova Nexus “improvement”. Another shameful debacle. City just disgusts me now. But Pigg and Mace at permits were always kind and respectful.

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  • EvelynMay 04, 2013 - 6:23 pm

    Can You Hear Me Now? Why? certainly is a valid question, one we all ask ourselves. I guess my answer to your "Why?" is that reinforcements from people like yourself with real experience bolsters and reinforces those who stand up meeting after meeting to make the people's case. Perhaps more importantly, it just might help the City to see themselves through the eyes of those they are meant to serve.

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  • JohnMay 04, 2013 - 8:15 pm

    This issue is a solution in search of a problem.

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  • cookie65May 05, 2013 - 6:07 am

    Roundabouts remind me of Nascar. There is one in Colfax, so when ever I go thru there I paint the number 14 on the side of my car and do a little bumpin' a rubbin'.

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  • ScottRABMay 06, 2013 - 11:33 am

    Many people confuse older styles of circular intersections with modern roundabouts. East coast rotaries, large multi-lane traffic circles (Arc D’Triumph), and neighborhood traffic circles are not modern roundabouts. If you want to see the difference between a traffic circle, a rotary (UK roundabout) and a modern roundabout (UK continental roundabout), go to http://tinyurl.com/kstate-RAB to see pictures. And here’s another site that shows the difference between an older rotary and a modern roundabout: http://tinyurl.com/bzf7qmg The FHWA (http://tinyurl.com/fhwaRAB) has a video about modern roundabouts that is mostly accurate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhHzly_6lWM ). Modern roundabouts are the safest form of intersection in the world. Visit http://tinyurl.com/iihsRAB for FAQs and safety facts. The safety comes from the ‘slow and go’ operation instead of the ‘stop or go fast’ way a stop light works. The smaller size of the modern roundabout is what makes them safer and keeps speeds in the 20 mph range. This makes it much easier to avoid a crash or stop for pedestrians. It also means that if a crash happens the likelihood of injury is very low. Safety is the #1 reason there are over 2,400 modern roundabouts in the US today and many more on the way. Slow and go modern roundabout intersections means less delay than a stop light or stop sign, especially the other 20 hours a day people aren’t driving to or from work. Average daily delay at a signal is around 12 seconds per car. At a modern roundabout average delay is less than five seconds. Signals take an hour of demand and restrict it to a half hour, at best only half the traffic gets to go at any one time. At a modern roundabout four drivers entering from four directions can all enter at the same time. Don’t try that with a signalized intersection. Single-lane modern roundabouts (90-120 feet in diameter) can handle intersections that serve about 20,000 vehicles per day. Two-lane modern roundabouts (150-220 feet in diameter) can serve about 50,000 vehicles per day. Right-turn slip lanes can increase that number if needed.

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  • DeeMay 06, 2013 - 3:51 pm

    PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING (Please note new time, 6:00 p.m.): Tuesday, May 7, 2013, Town Hall, 549 Main Street, Placerville, 6:00 p.m. the Agenda with Staff Reports and Exhibits is available on our website and at the link: http://www.cityofplacerville.org/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?BlobID=7363 BE THERE!!!!!

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netMay 19, 2013 - 5:57 pm

    Evelyn...please remember cell phones, tablets,laptops...are not sustainable...Roundabouts on the Road to Sustainability. It is not my fault. http://www.tsinw.com/blog/roundabouts-road-sustainability

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netMay 19, 2013 - 5:59 pm

    "What they may not know is that roundabouts have a major role to play in making our transportation system more sustainable and dramatically safer than traditional intersections. TSI was asked recently to summarize the research on this topic for a workshop at the Seattle office of the federal Economic Development Administration. " same site posted before...

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netMay 19, 2013 - 6:03 pm

    Washington--pay attention--read. Task Force Recommends $20B for Transportation....possibilities..."Among other possibilities, the state-level funding options could include tolling, $100 fees for electric vehicles, additional gas taxes, a statewide motor vehicle excise tax, and a tax on vehicle miles traveled." 2011 article same link posted before. The Rural areas are the last frontier on land.

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  • Fran DuchampOctober 22, 2013 - 8:15 am

    Meeting tonight at city hall...they are not listening about what the public wants...roundabout on the agenda. "Adopt a Resolution Approving a Consulting Services Agreement with PMC in an Amount Not to Exceed $155,994 for Preparation of an Environmental Impact Report for the Clay Street at Main Street/Cedar Ravine Realignment and Clay Street Bridge Replacement Project over Hangtown Creek (CIP#40617) and Authorizing the City Manager to Execute the Same (Mr. Rivas)" Tonight at 6 pm. October 22, 2013 City Council Chambers – Town Hall 549 Main Street, Placerville, CA 95667 5:30 P.M. Closed Session 6:00 P.M. Open Session http://tinyurl.com/n3t24u9

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  • Fran DuchampOctober 22, 2013 - 8:17 am

    Today is about many of your local leaders NOT listening. Watch the BOS today/or go there. Then at 6pm...go to the roundabout meeting. Good luck Placerville.

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