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PLACERVILLE, CALIFORNIA
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Santiago to lead community ‘visioning’ for Pollock Pines

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From page A4 | January 25, 2013 | 63 Comments

El Dorado County District V Supervisor Norma Santiago will bring a new and exciting visioning “exercise” to Pollock Pines that intends to ask a basic but critically important question, “How do you envision Pollock Pines, today and into the future?”

Monday, Jan. 28, at 6 p.m., the public is invited to attend this workshop held at the Pollock Pines-Camino Community Center, 2675 Sanders Drive, Pollock Pines.

The purpose of this workshop is an exercise where community members, stakeholders, businesses, recreationalists and recipients of every potential in Pollock Pines will be asked to identify area assets and what and how these assets lead toward economic, social, environmental and recreational vitality in Pollock Pines.

Michael Ward, an accomplished facilitator, will lead the workshop in this process. By the end of the evening, there will have greater clarity of identity, character and a vision for the future of Pollock Pines. The results of this workshop will be presented to the El Dorado Board of Supervisors and could provide a template for other communities to create meaningful discussions on their futures.

The Pollock Pines area is now a part of Supervisor Santiago’s District V, spanning from Stateline, Nev., South Lake Tahoe, the West Shore of Lake Tahoe, the Highway 50 corridor and Pollock Pines to Jenkinson Lake.

“I am thrilled to include Pollock Pines in the economic development efforts that I am working on at Lake Tahoe where I see great similarities between the community of Meyers and the Pollock Pines community,” said Santiago.

“There are many opportunities emerging right now that can create exactly the kind of community residents here want, and I am very happy to help bring these successes about”.

Contact Supervisor Santiago’s Placerville office for more information at 530-621-6577 or e-mail bbosfive@edcgov.us.

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Discussion | 63 comments

  • EvelynJanuary 24, 2013 - 2:05 pm

    "Accomplished facilitator" Michael Ward elsewhere is billed as Chief Strategy and Innovation Officer, Strategic Economic, Workforce, Sustainability, HealthCare: HighBar Global Consulting. HighBar (no website) has ONE employee, presumably the same Michael Ward. He also is Project Leader/Facilitator. Tahoe Partnership for Sustainable Communities. This group's members, which include some familiar names, can be found HERE.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 24, 2013 - 3:11 pm

    This should be interesting...many have said --they will not go...these meetings have happened before. People were told the mill would reopen after a couple of years--didnt happen...so they dont believe. Many people question how a supervisor -who lives 50 miles away will change any thing. I will be there--just to see who will shows up.

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  • EvelynJanuary 24, 2013 - 6:05 pm

    People should attend the meeting prepared to ask the really hard questions and clearly stating what they want. But the going will be tough, because typically these workshops are "facilitated" to a preordained agenda. The agenda will be opened up ONLY if the community is there knowing what they want from the meeting and what they want for their community. I'm glad you're going, Fran. If at all possible, hog tie and bring along your nearest 500 neighbors!

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  • EvelynJanuary 24, 2013 - 6:16 pm

    P.S. There WILL BE "stakeholders" present!

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 24, 2013 - 7:28 pm

    Evelyn...Im trying to talk everyone I know into going...I have even given my best glare...I hope people come. Some times my skills work too well. I think people up here have been ignored for so long--they are just ignoring the whole thing. I have been told by a few--who are from families that have been here forever--that nothing will come from these meetings. But I never give up (grinning with baby blues lit up) I was told some people were told not to come...(shrugging shoulders) I have two more ideas...

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  • EvelynJanuary 24, 2013 - 8:31 pm

    Fran, I understand why people expect nothing from the meetings. The agenda and outcome are pre-set, and people get blindsided by vague, feel-good words. "Sustainability" is one such. Very best wishes.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 24, 2013 - 8:50 pm

    @ Evelyn-- thanks...I have put two ideas into place--we will see what happens. Once again for those people up where I am...when you come to the meeting on Monday--be ready with focused questions. What would you like to happen to bring back our economy up here in Pollock Pines--we are the portal to "somewhere" meaning people stop here either to go to Lake Tahoe--or to go to Sacramento. We are a lumber town at the timber line. We have our own families and children--we are more than just a tourist town-please come to the meeting--voice your opinions. People are going to this--if you dont go--those that do decide-- for you. See you at the meeting...lolol your favorite "pita" as Ive been so dubed.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 24, 2013 - 9:00 pm

    People at Camino...I would love friends from there to come as well..we have always been neighbors. I feel we have been separated from each other...I dont like the feeling. I dont like surprises. Grab your partner and come on up-to the Pollock Pines Camino community center on Monday. Our two places make money for the county--so now--what can they do for us . Question? If our field is sold, and gone for our children--will snowline little league be gone as well?--50 years--gone

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  • CherylJanuary 25, 2013 - 9:35 am

    I think it would do alot for Pollock Pines to get some of the properties to clean up their yards, so many along Pony Express look like junkyards. Visitors have commented that some of these properties look like crack houses. Also, can we do something about the burned out mexican restaurant, that is another eyesore.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 25, 2013 - 9:37 am

    over the fence...gossip or truth...I was told that Mr. Nutting was told not to come to this meeting--although he has a child in our school system...so as a parent shouldn't he be included in this meeting? (could be just gossip) I would hope that our supervisor is secure enough not to forbid the other supervisors up here...such as the supervisor in Camino, and Ray. People should come just to see who shows up. It has the beginnings of something big--hate to see someone miss out. People run an agenda...not the government--unless you allow it. The county needs us. Camino has the Apple Hill Events--brings thousands...we have Sly Park...lololol...and the gate. (which stops thousands during bad weather and other disasters) I love talking to the tourists...but I also love my neighbors, many of whom have lost everything because of the mill closing in Camino. (while someone (not us-- makes money off the misfortune of others) I hope to see all the supervisors coming--if they live and represent the same area. Again --could be just a rumor.

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  • Sue TaylorJanuary 25, 2013 - 11:08 am

    People should ask them what it will take to bring the Mill back. I've been asking for years and all I've heard back so far is talk of hotels, museums and civic centers. The timber is still here - how do we get SPI to mill it here instead of taking it to Lincoln?

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 25, 2013 - 11:31 am

    @ Cheryl I agree--we do not have a main street that tells any story. However did you want to see TWO-THREE level buildings on our main street. I love the people that visit here (well maybe not all--but most) Did you know some of the businesses were told what to do? I know of one business that said they have it in their will now--not to paint ever. People are personable--but it is theirs. If you look a few of the properties are owned by people who rent...their main street properties--are a few that look like crack houses. The insides are worst. No paint in or out. Look at the design of some of our buildings. With that in mind. Do you want it all to go away? Because that is what this meeting is about. I would like to see the mill come back. Many want to see a huge civic center come in...which means developers will come. It is different than wanting a park for our community. Rural development generally refers to the process of improving the quality of life and economic wellbeing of people living in relatively isolated and sparsely populated areas. Moseley, Malcolm J. (2003). Rural development : principles and practice (1. publ. ed.). London [u.a.]: SAGE. pp. 5. ISBN 0-7619-4766-3.Rural development has traditionally centered on the exploitation of land-intensive natural resources such as agriculture and forestry. However, changes in global production networks and increased urbanization have changed the character of rural areas. Increasingly tourism, niche manufacturers, and recreation have replaced resource extraction and agriculture as dominant economic drivers.Ward, Neil; Brown, David L. (1 December 2009). "Placing the Rural in Regional Development". Regional Studies 43 (10): 1237–1244. Look at this sentence fragment,replacing resource extraction and agriculture as dominant economic--this meeting is not about our natural resources...such as the timber and mills. Its development. So as ugly as parts of our main road is..we still have trees. Roam the net--look at other rural developments. Think about us being the portal of highway 50 (up or down.) Come to the meeting. Think about big resorts coming in--corporate businesses. Not mom and pop any more. When I came from Los Angeles--people would say..oh--you,re from there. Yet some want to bring some of "there" to here. Instead of killing off a history and putting it in a museum. Why not continue a heritage that generations have left us? We are a lumber town at the timber line. People have farms in Camino--we have ranches and cattle in our back country. Horses and wagon trains. Jeepers running the trails. Why give this up--come to this meeting--stand up for this place. Or it will be gone. If you want the mill back--say so. Someone is going to speak...listen carefully. Come prepared with solid questions. Do you really want a economic base back that reflects our natural environment--or do you want developers to take over. Most of this is decided for you behind the scenes...they are just coming in, asking what you want it to look like. Not that it will. Fight back. They have a team--we have a town.

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  • EvelynJanuary 25, 2013 - 1:09 pm

    "They have a team--we have a town." NEVER has a community's case been better stated. Hang onto that thought for dear life.

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  • EvelynJanuary 25, 2013 - 1:14 pm

    Am posting four relevant links separately because more than one and the comment gets rejected. ONE - Lake Tahoe Sustainability Collaborative

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  • CherylJanuary 25, 2013 - 1:15 pm

    @frances I never said I wanted development, I love the quaintness of this area. I love the old buildings. I just get sick of looking at the places along Pony Express that are piled up with junk. And as much as the Jenkinson Lake summer tourists can be irritating (they don't know how to slow down and relax)I also don't want them to judge the area by the junkyards and the burned out mexican restaurant. I want the same thing for this area as you do. I don't need to tour the internet to know what the cement jungles are like, I grew up in San Francisco (Go NINERS!). I pass that mill a few times a week and always feel sad, would love for it to re-open!

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  • EvelynJanuary 25, 2013 - 1:17 pm

    TWO - Tahoe Basin Partnership for Sustainable Communities

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  • EvelynJanuary 25, 2013 - 1:19 pm

    THREE - California Strategic Growth Council, 2012 Annual Report

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  • EvelynJanuary 25, 2013 - 1:21 pm

    FOUR - Transforming Tahoe Into a Model Sustainable Region

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 25, 2013 - 3:03 pm

    @ Cheryl I believe you bring out the best in me my friend...I have been with people all day talking about this meeting. I think people think our town ends at the fire dept. I heard your concerns repeated in many places today...lololol...I like you--some not so much. My question...why are the landlords not taking responsibility for some of the properties on Pony? If they just painted--put in plants...maybe the tenets would care as well. smile my friend...I believe we are starting to believe in the same things--and we both like llamas. Two city kids that understand the issues better than a few--very scary. Be careful--people will start calling you names as well. Not everyone is polite...lolololol

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 25, 2013 - 3:07 pm

    At Evelyn...thank you. I will start looking at those links now.

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  • CherylJanuary 25, 2013 - 3:47 pm

    @Evelyn, thank you so much for the articles, I am still reading (re-reading thanks to the double talk in the articles)and you are so right about the overuse of the word sustainable. It's almost like it is a diversion tactic. @Francesca, to see what I mean about a community keeping it's older buildings and retaining quaintness, look at Guerneville and Monte Rio in Sonoma County, they still have all the old buildings and bridges, but it is CLEAN, and this is an area that gets flooded regularly. We can have that here. AND they still have all the great redwoods and the Russian River in the country atmosphere, just like here. The junk along the main road gives a wrong impression of the beauty of our county. I'm sure the restaurants in Pollock would appreciate more cheerful surroundings also and maybe we could get the Sportsman's Lodge on the right track. We have that cute little gift shop now across from the fire dept., more of that kind of thing would be great for the economy here. On one last note, as far as being called names, I worked in an industry where you had to constantly stand up for yourself for equal pay and equal opportunity, so I'm used to being called names, it rolls off my back at this point in my life. AND once again I have to say, I learn more about what is going on in this county from the letter writer and comments than what I read in the other parts of the newspaper!

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 25, 2013 - 4:00 pm

    Evelyn--thank you for the articles..reading them will take awhile. I hope others will read them as well. Monday will be interesting--to say the least. Cheryl--thank you for the links...both of you have an excellent night...Im going to really look over thses items

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 29, 2013 - 9:35 am

    Pollock Pines: The area encompassing Pollock Pines is in a heavily timbered mountain region situated along the ridge top on the south side of the South Fork of the American River. (wikipedia) One cannot speak of the history of Pollock Pines and the surrounding area without mentioning the Blair family. The Blair family can be distinguished as continuously contributing to the development of the area from the beginnings of the gold rush up to the present time, first as innkeepers, but also as lumbermen, and ranchers. (http://www.thepollockpinesepic.com/title/the-blair-family/)The original Blair’s Mill operated by John and James Blair was located near Five Mile House in 1856The second mill, called Elkhorn Mill, was set up at the head of Iowa Canyon in 1860. Fresh Pond Mill was run by Blair brothers, Walter and Arthur J., and they were joined at Long Canyon by Matthew E. Blair Jr. and Albert Blair. These four partners also operated the mill at Pacific House. Some of their timber holdings were sold to the Michigan-California Lumber Company in 1958. The Combellacks of Placerville and Bert and Blair Harris, who own and operate Harris Christmas Tree Farm on Blair Road in Pollock Pines, are some of these descendants. Bert and Blair are descendants of Matthew, the oldest of the four Blair brothers from Scotland. They own and operate the Christmas tree farm and Apple Hill orchard on the site of the original Elkhorn Mill where their great grandfather died. The Harrises continue to contribute to our local economy as did their ancestors before them. (These families are still here.)Having a town named for you happens to very few people, but Hiram Robert Pollock was a man in the right place at the right time for this honor. H. R. Pollock, “Hime”, was a lumberman in Michigan. He had been born there in Hersey, in 1865. He came to El Dorado County with his wife Anna and son Claude Earl after the turn of the century and brought with him the knowledge of the logging industry. In June of 1909 Pollock bought 240 acres near Sly Park and sold it less than a year later. He was involved in land and timber rights throughout the area for the next several years. Blair Brothers Lumber Co. Their First Mill was Down at Sly Park, Now Jenkins Lake, South of Pollock Pines. They Had a Mill Also North of Pacific House, across the American River, where I grew up in the 50′s. There was a Mill and town at Fresh Pond, another little mill at Pollock Pines, just east of town, and a small mill in the woods between Fresh Pond and Sly Park… ….http://sierraloggingmuseum.org/logging-history/eldorado-county-logging/ Harvey West and his family, huge lumber family. Arens family is still working in the lumber business. When the mill closed—it killed Pollock Pines. Pollock Pines is a logging town—our identity…lumber, ranches, horses , logging days, wagon train, Pony Express riders, dancing and county music—the Wild West. People came through our town to go down the hill for gold. Pollock Pines and Camino are providing towns, our history: Lumber and farming. Fees for building were brought up by two much respected residents--El Dorado fees are too high and no one can build. This was redirected quickly in “calming tones.” The meeting was interesting...thanks to the people who came that I asked. I am so sorry to the couple who live on Pony who left insulted. Thank you to the two children who said they wanted a bigger library. (More people should listen to children.) Please read the history of this town before you talk. We were told sometimes one just needs to put "history" a side—REALLY I thought the county didnt have any money. A much respected builder asked that same question--is the county putting up the money? The good part of the meeting--is I well able to say hello to some good friends (from Camino and Pollock ) The best part is they forgot to tell Mr. Ward that the meeting was in the Pollock Pines Camino community center--he was good at his job...but this did throw him off--if only for a min. He never did get back to some of the comments as promised...but then his job was to redirect to "the Agenda."

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 29, 2013 - 9:51 am

    This for the people in Pollock Pines, who disagreed (with my “green “paper’) that our “identity” is that of a lumber town. The area encompassing Pollock Pines is in a heavily timbered mountain region situated along the ridge top on the south side of the South Fork of the American River. (Wikipedia) One cannot speak of the history of Pollock Pines and the surrounding area without mentioning the Blair family. The Blair family can be distinguished as continuously contributing to the development of the area from the beginnings of the gold rush up to the present time, first as innkeepers, but also as lumbermen, and ranchers. (http://www.thepollockpinesepic.com/title/the-blair-family/)The original Blair’s Mill operated by John and James Blair was located near Five Mile House in 1856The second mill, called Elkhorn Mill, was set up at the head of Iowa Canyon in 1860. Fresh Pond Mill was run by Blair brothers, Walter and Arthur J., and they were joined at Long Canyon by Matthew E. Blair Jr. and Albert Blair. These four partners also operated the mill at Pacific House. Some of their timber holdings were sold to the Michigan-California Lumber Company in 1958. The Combellacks of Placerville and Bert and Blair Harris, who own and operate Harris Christmas Tree Farm on Blair Road in Pollock Pines, are some of these descendants. Bert and Blair are descendants of Matthew, the oldest of the four Blair brothers from Scotland. They own and operate the Christmas tree farm and Apple Hill orchard on the site of the original Elkhorn Mill where their great grandfather died. The Harrises continue to contribute to our local economy as did their ancestors before them. (These families are still here.)Having a town named for you happens to very few people, but Hiram Robert Pollock was a man in the right place at the right time for this honor. H. R. Pollock, “Hime”, was a lumberman in Michigan. He had been born there in Hersey, in 1865. He came to El Dorado County with his wife Anna and son Claude Earl after the turn of the century and brought with him the knowledge of the logging industry. In June of 1909 Pollock bought 240 acres near Sly Park and sold it less than a year later. He was involved in land and timber rights throughout the area for the next several years. Blair Brothers Lumber Co. Their First Mill was Down at Sly Park, Now Jenkins Lake, South of Pollock Pines. They Had a Mill Also North of Pacific House, across the American River, where I grew up in the 50′s. There was a Mill and town at Fresh Pond, another little mill at Pollock Pines, just east of town, and a small mill in the woods between Fresh Pond and Sly Park. (Sierra logging museum) Harvey West and his family, huge lumber family. The Arens family is still working in the lumber business. When the mill closed—it killed Pollock Pines (my “orange” paper). Pollock Pines is a logging town—our identity…lumber, ranches, horses , logging days, wagon train, Pony Express riders, dancing and lively music—the Wild West. People came through our town to go down the hill for gold. Pollock Pines and Camino are providing towns, our history: Lumber and farming. Fees for building were brought up by two much respected residents--El Dorado fees are too high and no one can build. This was redirected quickly in “calming tones.” The meeting was interesting...thanks to the people who came that I asked. I am so sorry to the couple who live on Pony who left insulted. Thank you to the two children who said they wanted a bigger library. (More people should listen to children.) Please read the history of this town before you talk. We were told sometimes one just needs to put "history" a side—REALLY I thought the county didnt have any money. A much respected builder asked that same question--is the county putting up the money? The good part of the meeting--is I was able to say hello to some good friends (from Camino and Pollock ) The best part is they forgot to tell Mr. Ward that the meeting was in the Pollock Pines Camino community center--he was very good at his job...but this did throw him off--if only for a min. (He had just finished saying that the guests from Camino were to watch and listen—he didn’t know this was their house too.) He never did get back to some of the comments as promised...but then his job was to redirect to "the Agenda."

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  • EvelynJanuary 29, 2013 - 12:46 pm

    Hi, Fran. The meeting was Delphied. HERE

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 29, 2013 - 1:28 pm

    Are You Being Delphied? The Rand Corporation in the early 1960s developed the Delphi technique for the purpose of maneuvering segments of the public into accepting predetermined government policies. In the 1970s and '80s, it was ideally used to convince land owners of the merits of accepting joining and general plan maps. Now it is being employed to persuade the public to accept outcome-based education and the licensing of all employees, via endorsements in the Certificate of Initial Mastery (CIM) and Certificate of Advanced Mastery (CAM) programs, a.k.a. school-to-work. The goal of the Delphi technique is to lead a targeted group of people to a predetermined outcome, while giving the illusion of taking public input and under the pretext of being accountable to the public. For the Delphi to work, it is critical that the targeted group be kept away from knowledgeable people who could lead them away from the Delphier's predetermined outcome. One variation on the Delphi technique is to use a series of meetings. The attendees are often given a number or a colored card when they enter the room, to determine at which table they are to sit. The purpose of this is to break up the groups of potentially knowledgeable people who arrive together so that they will be sitting with strangers and therefore be subdued. Typically, at each table is a facilitator, someone who will know which way to help "steer" the group. Usually the people at each table are instructed to answer among themselves some of the questions and arrive at a table consensus. Someone is chosen to speak for the table, most of the time it is the person who has been secretly pre-briefed about the desired Delphi outcome. The table spokesperson is the only one allowed to address the podium and the others have little opportunity to address the podium or the crowd directly. Anyone knowledgeable enough, or brave enough, to speak out in opposition will not be welcomed. Often they are told from the podium, "We don't have time to discuss that now," or "We discussed that on another date," or “We can discuss that after the meeting.” They will attempt to quiet, isolate, and discredit dissenters. After attending the Delphi meeting, participants may feel uneasy that they are in disagreement with the apparent majority. The Delphi technique is often successful in bluffing people into submission. Don't let them succeed. Call their bluff. Just helping the "next" groups vision of "identity"

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 29, 2013 - 1:44 pm

    Evelyn...I was bored...but I have a degree in advertising...so I know how to lead a crowd visually. The people I have spoken with this morning--saw it too. unfortunately the history lesson was because--My mouth was open...The name Pollock...is the name of a lumber man. They insulted two people who know the people who have lived here for ever--they are mad. I hope to go to the Camino one. This whole thing was taped for channel 2...lolololol...either you will not see me at all...or they have cut my remarks. Seems I have new-"new" enemies now (shaking head smiling) This would be insulting-if it wasnt so funny. People walked out through out the evening...I will never get them to come back. I am allowing them to say "I told you so." (hate that) The most talked about thing from people that I have spoken with today...is about people that were placed in different areas to help guide towards the "agenda" --people are mad. There was a scattering of very important families there..they asked us how long we have lived here--they forgot to ask how long some of these peoples families had lived here. All in all it will give people something to think about as they are mucking out their stalls.

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  • EvelynJanuary 29, 2013 - 2:10 pm

    ALL such county meetings are Delphied. Noted that the facilitator reassured those present that their results would overlap 95% with non-attenders. I wonder.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 29, 2013 - 2:27 pm

    Evelyn...I was bored...at some point he wanted us to close our eyes...I was glad he didnt ask us to hold hands. I engaged in conversations with my neighbors--on other topics.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 29, 2013 - 2:45 pm

    Also a friend of mine was told not to use his word--because it had already been used...yet the word of the day "lake" or 'recreation" was allowed several times (due to their agenda)--I watched from that point to make sure my words got through.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 30, 2013 - 8:08 am

    @Sue Taylor...when it comes for your district "vision" have people put words they want down...again I had friends at every table that I did not say hello to on purpose. One friend was told not to write his word because it had already been written down. Yet "agenda" words will be allow to repeat several times. If asked to go up as a group--have several stay back--they will see the larger picture. There are variations to this type of "leading" of an audience. People are smart. They will go for the submissive personalities. Most important when people are asked for several words--have some stick to one...throws off concentration (and they really dont go over the comments.) One friend sat down disgusted because they had read hers wrong on purpose. Hope this helps. I have people that went adding to these observations.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 30, 2013 - 6:24 pm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zpA1althjo

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netJanuary 30, 2013 - 6:25 pm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omjnTSctsjs

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 01, 2013 - 10:53 am

    http://news.silobreaker.com/bbosfiveedcgovus-11_538695684 Contact Supervisor Santiago’s Placerville office for more information at 530-621-6577 or e-mail the bbosfive Who is paying for these meetings ? How much was Mr. Ward paid as a facilitator at this meeting in Pollock? Who is the hosting group? and how much did they pay for the rental of the center and the supplies used ?

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 01, 2013 - 11:09 am

    Email sent out to friends and "new" enemies..(in case people do not read this on-line paper) .Ms.Santiago--people are wondering who is paying for the town meetings..(El Dorado County District V Supervisor Norma Santiago will bring a new and exciting visioning “exercise” to Pollock Pines that intends to ask a basic but critically important question, “How do you envision Pollock Pines, today and into the future?” Monday, Jan. 28, at 6 p.m., (this is the second one) and we have one on Feb 25th) Who is hosting them (are they paying a rental fee?) And how much does Mr. Ward get paid to direct these meetings? I understand people have asked where money will come from for ideas presented...and have been told these will be answered on the 25th of Feb. Is this correct? As in the paper you have said to submit any questions... 1. Who is paying for the town meetings in Pollock--which group. How much is being spent for these meetings up and down the hill? 2. Did the hosting group use some of their money for renting the center? How much? And who is the hosting group? 3. How much was Mr. Ward paid to facilitate the meeting? And for now--who paid him? 4. A resident was told that the meeting on the 25th of Feb. will address where funds will come from--is this correct? 5. Is the county going to drop building fees way down (or even waive them)--so that builders can work within our county? Thank You for allowing us to ask questions.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 01, 2013 - 7:47 pm

    Sue Taylor...by the way--I did ask about the mill...my word was lumber. People tried to say we were not a lumber town. Even the host made the remark od "Isnt that a Camino thing?" I replied that Pollock Pines has the trees and we have always worked together. The people who said Pollock is more than lumber...I wonder if any one reads any more...they didnt know that Mr. Pollock was a lumber guy. lolololol...I mainly watched. I guess they didnt read that lumber is still being logged--but now it goes down the hill. Next meeting will be interesting as well. FEB 25th @ 6:00

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  • Bill E.February 02, 2013 - 7:42 am

    Hmm... The long commentary by a few starts with negatives of impending conspiracy and agenda and then afterwards they reveled in their self fulfilling prophecy. On the flip side, it was a very large group of people, all on equal footing, who shared their perspectives within a structured format. In these type meetings, everyone is an individual voice on equal footing and there is no such thing as respected community member. From the comments, I get a clear sense of the intolerance of perspectives different from their own view of the world. Isn't this the exact same thing these same folks accuse of others of with conspiracy and agenda. I am right so you must be wrong. Hmmm.....

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  • Bill E.February 02, 2013 - 7:53 am

    Now, the history of Pollock with timber, logging and mills should be known by the community at large. History is forgotten when people do not talk about once was and it is up to senior members of the community to reach out to the young to keep the history alive..... The future of any revitalization of the mill is strictly a SPI issue. Coffee shop chats and community identity meetings provide no relief on this issue. Got to go to the mountain on this one.

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  • EvelynFebruary 02, 2013 - 8:15 am

    Bill: Surely you noticed that from the beginning the meeting was totally directed by the organizers. At no time was there an open forum for residents to make spontaneous input, ask questions, raise concerns, or challenge the meeting's structure. True: "it was a very large group of people, all on equal footing, who shared their perspectives within a structured format." But the format allowed for nothing beyond its predetermined discussion and managed output. I'll bet many Camino/Pollock Pines residents came to the meeting with expectations that weren't catered for by the tightly structured format. Perhaps the significant corps of County staff present on the occasion have another perspective.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 02, 2013 - 8:46 am

    conspiracy? lololol...Agenda is referring to this definition: Agenda (meeting), points to be discussed; sometimes refers to the list of topics itself. It does not justify using a "sales" technique to run a town meeting--where people should be able interact how they want. It was guided.

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  • EvelynFebruary 02, 2013 - 9:13 am

    Scouring the County's website for EDC's EDAC members has left me empty handed. But the minutes of the December 2012 meeting show the following: Maryann Argyres, T. Abraham, Jim Brunello, Jeanne Harper, Gordon Helm, Roberta Long, Mark Nava, Michael Ranalli, Charlie Downs, Danny Shilin, Dale Van Dam. ********** From the Dec. 2012 Minutes: "Pollock Pines is crafting a prototype for other communities to use with Supervisor Santiago’s help." TWO QUESTIONS: (1) Do Pollock Pines residents know they are "crafting a prototype"? (2) What criteria, if any, must they adhere to?

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  • Bill E.February 02, 2013 - 9:17 am

    Evelyn: The objective of the meeting was a focused discussion on community identity with over 100 people in the room. It has to be guided otherwise you are herding cats. Subjects like how come the mill doesn't get reopened is not community identity issue. My comment is let's see what the next few meeting yield before condemning the process. So, just curious how it could have been run any differently over these circumstances and accomplish anything?

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 02, 2013 - 9:19 am

    Bill...I invited many of those people --we just didint sit together.

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  • EvelynFebruary 02, 2013 - 9:21 am

    LINK to the December 20, 2012 EDC EDAC Minutes. (See pg.2 for the above Pollock Pines reference.)

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  • EvelynFebruary 02, 2013 - 9:34 am

    Bill: I'm not suggesting that a free-for-all would have been desirable. From the article: "The purpose of this workshop is an exercise where community members, stakeholders, businesses, recreationalists and recipients of every potential in Pollock Pines will be asked to identify area assets and what and how these assets lead toward economic, social, environmental and recreational vitality in Pollock Pines." Participants who read Daley's article, and attending unaware that they were "crafting a prototype for other communities to use", may well have anticipated an opportunity for more free-ranging input than what the facilitated event permitted.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 02, 2013 - 9:42 am

    Our identity is being a lumber town Bill. We live in a forest...we have natural surroundings. When asked I put "lumber." Our best asset for jobs is lumber. Our negative assets is closing the mill. It killed our town. I can run the next meeting...I would bring in a panel of some of the longest residents here--I would honor our elders. I would honor the people who helped build this place up and ask them what was successful in this town. I would include Camino. I would respect the intelligence of my fellow man and not lead them to a pool of words. If someone wrote bowling alley as their asset--even if it had been written before--I would allow them to put it up. I would keep people in their seats so that they could see the whole visual picture as they talked. I could go on. And the biggest item...is I would ask how many times Pollock has been promised something--and once again been over looked. The man that asked that question? why is it Pollock Pines is always overlooked--was gently guided away from that "negative" line of thinking. this is why--people do not attend these meetings...100 there--did the count include people who walked out?

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  • EvelynFebruary 02, 2013 - 9:42 am

    P.S. I strongly question Mr. Ward's reassuring assertion that the evening's participants were at least 95% representative of community residents not in attendance. Really!!! No competent statistician would make that statement.

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  • EvelynFebruary 02, 2013 - 10:26 am

    "Initiated & Monitored by the Community" - Multiples of this placard stood on each table. Would someone care to state that the initiating "community" was NOT the County? Would someone care to state that the monitoring "community" is NOT the County? And a breakdown of attendees: What percentage were County or organizers?

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  • Sue TaylorFebruary 03, 2013 - 6:55 pm

    I was told to come because they would include Camino and the meeting was in the Pollock Pines-Camino Community Center. But Camino residents were really not included. If we turned in a sticky note we were told to put Camino on it. Also as far as the lumber issue is concerned I was told that SPI would bring the Mill back if the USFS would allow them around 80 million board feet to cut. So is that a government issue or a SPI issue?

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 04, 2013 - 8:22 am

    A very nice person next to me--said they didnt live in Pollock--but because of business--they were allowed to participate. There was even an announcement that the definition of being from Pollock was being a resident or having a business--they had to let Camino participate--once it was pointed out that the building we were in belonged to both Camino and Pollock. (a building not supported by government--but by the people in these two areas) The timber is still here - how do we get SPI to mill it here instead of taking it to Lincoln? As Sue wrote " Also as far as the lumber issue is concerned I was told that SPI would bring the Mill back if the USFS would allow them around 80 million board feet to cut. So is that a government issue or a SPI issue?" Timber IS going out--just not milled here.

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  • Sue TaylorFebruary 05, 2013 - 6:15 am

    Woops - just check my notes, SPI needs 70 million board feet..

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 20, 2013 - 4:43 pm

    before it disappears...here is a post from the group deciding our "vision" here in pollock pines... Community Economic Development Association of Pollock Pines - CEDAPP 20 hours ago near Pollock Pines via mobile Having just arrived back home here in Pollock Pines to find that our Los Hermanos has been demolished, I called Evan Bell, owner of the Pony Express Plaza, to quiet the rumors of what happened and what's coming. The insurance investigation was inconclusive. There is a reasonable guess, but since it is not fact, I won't mention it here. What is coming is a Family Dollar Store. All other guesses were unfounded rumors. Maybe we can speak to the corporate offices to recommend that they stock the store with sports and recreational equipment and supplies! Like · · Share 6 people like this. Melissa Markgraf Nyc Seriously? A dollar store? Ugh. I wish it was something that might raise up Pollock Pines. Not cheapen it. Lol...i think I'll avoid the $1 SUP board and the $1 ski equipment....I'd rather live through the experience. 17 hours ago via mobile · Like · 1 Tim Roffe What a waste..... Has anyone looked at the general atmosphere at the end of Broadway in P-ville? You know, where the "dollar store" is? Not much for expanding tourism interests... let alone a valuable area that could be so much better... sort of like putting a subway in a spot with an incredible view... oh, never mind. Any chance this “corp” would like to listen to locals? 11 hours ago · Like · 2 Community Economic Development Association of Pollock Pines - CEDAPP There's always that chance, Tim. And this is not the $1.00 Dollar store like in Placerville. The Family Dollar Stores are more like a Big Lots. There's not much in there for only a buck. I made the argument with Evan for a recreational store, but he said there were no takers. 8 hours ago via mobile · Like · 1 Beverly Read Can't believe anyone with $$$ would think this is a good idea. Ugh! I for one will NOT support it. 7 hours ago via mobile · Like Beverly Read Meaning I won't shop there! 7 hours ago via mobile · Like Fran Duchamp This is the new welcoming committee for a new business ? Nice--this is exactly what Im worried about--does any one realize we have families that are hurting here? And picking on an existing business? They started when they were 19--and should not have to listen to any one telling them different. How can a committee be formed--if no one respects the people here... a small group is making choices for a whole-yet doesnt respect people who have been around for a long time? ARROGANCE--When a person is led to believe that they are in some way more superior to everybody else. No one has the right to tell people what to have as their business-nor what to do with their property. For every one who "wont " shop there...that certainly is your right. I believe everyone should be welcomed into our town--because that is being a good neighbor. Wow--some of you are scary.This is not the city--its a small place..not even a town. THIS IS SCARY. next meeting feb 25 community center

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 22, 2013 - 12:48 pm

    Please join us at meeting number three (mon., feb. 25th. at 6:00)--I missed meeting number one...oh well...here is something from the bay areas "visioning"--where a riot broke out...after people figured out they were being delphied... .Mr Rogers January 14, 2012 at 12:45 pm Welcome to Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood.Today we’re going to talk about tyranny, can you say tyranny boys and girls? Sure, thought you could, um hum. In the old neighborhood, everyone was special, they made their own decisions, now we’re all the same. All the neighborhoods are the same. We used to be individuals with unalienable rights, and freedoms, but we didn’t stick up for ourselves back in 2012, so now it’s all like a socialist redevelopment area, sure, um hum.Can you say stacked ‘n packed? Hope to see you there...http://www.iror.org/delphied.asp

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  • EvelynFebruary 22, 2013 - 2:39 pm

    Fran: Have there been any announcements -- newspaper, or otherwise -- about this next meeting?

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 22, 2013 - 2:55 pm

    At a meeting last night about our fourth of july parade...Jeanie Harper (leader of the hosting group) reminded all of us of the meeting...many different groups were present. Notifications? havent seen any yet. From the CEDAPP page on facebook : Community Economic Development Association of Pollock Pines - CEDAPP February 13 near Midvale, UT via mobile CEDAPP sends a "hearty" shout out to all Pollock Pines residents, businesses, and organizations! Hope to see you all on Feb. 25 when we continue our community planning meeting, facilitated by Supv. Norma Santiago and Michael Ward. We will review the areas of community focus determined by last month's meeting and go on to determine how best to maximize those focus areas on order to bring more business to our businesses and prove the quality of life for the community. Feeling the love.......

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 22, 2013 - 3:05 pm

    Evelyn--it is still on the community center calendar. Feb. 25th at 6 pm

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 24, 2013 - 7:16 pm

    http://skift.com/2013/02/03/lake-tahoe-resorts-investing-millions-now-in-hopes-of-2026-winter-olympics-bid/ our third "visioning" is tomorrow at the community center...6:00 here in Pollock--not well advertised...lolol...so im inviting you all. :)

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  • EvelynFebruary 24, 2013 - 9:09 pm

    Excellent sleuthing.

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  • francescaduchamp@att.netFebruary 25, 2013 - 4:22 pm

    3RD MEETING TONIGHT feb 25th at 6:00 Pollock Pines Community Center community center

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  • EvelynMarch 29, 2013 - 8:19 am

    Primer for anyone attending a "visioning" workshop HERE. "Consensus Decision Making & Visioning Methods Used by Government - How they Manipulate Public Perceptions"

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  • FranAugust 07, 2013 - 7:34 pm

    Phil we were not very cooperative with our visioning...we dont have a plan yet as a community--Harper may have one--ask her. I know what they dont like :)

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  • FranAugust 07, 2013 - 7:39 pm

    Off the wall of CEDAPP...awhile back " What a waste..... Has anyone looked at the general atmosphere at the end of Broadway in P-ville? You know, where the "dollar store" is? Not much for expanding tourism interests... let alone a valuable area that could be so much better... sort of like putting a subway in a spot with an incredible view... oh, never mind. Any chance this “corp” would like to listen to locals? " Im a local lololol--tourists wanted "subway"..."starbucks" and micky d (for the play area)

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  • FranAugust 07, 2013 - 7:45 pm

    So Phil through gathering comments...we can get a feel how Harper and her group talk about issues...about the Family Dollar Store and subway...but do I have hard empirical evidence--no. I could make some up--but I have the new 2013 suite--and much of my stuff goes to the cloud--never to be seen again...lololol....it does have pretty clip art.

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