Friday, April 18, 2014
PLACERVILLE, CALIFORNIA
99 CENTS

Sheriff: Gun control not the issue

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EL DORADO COUNTY SHERIFF John D'Agostini talks about gun rights at the El Dorado County Republican Women meeting Monday at the Golden Waffle Cafe in Placerville. Democrat photo by Krysten Kellum

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From page A1 | March 08, 2013 | 78 Comments

Gun control, road closures, gangs, and other topics were covered when El Dorado County Sheriff John D’Agostini addressed the women of the El Dorado County Republican Women Federated at their Monday meeting.

D’Agostini opened by noting that everyone was probably already aware of the letter he sent to Vice President Joe Biden in which he said he and his staff would not be pressured into enforcing any unconstitutional provision, law or executive order abridging the Second Amendment.

“I put them on notice you will not confiscate guns in El Dorado County,” he said. “I work for you and I’m going to do my job.”

He said so far Biden hasn’t responded to his letter. ”He didn’t call, he didn’t write,” laughed the sheriff.

D’Agostini went on to say that over 500 sheriffs across the country have sent similar messages and at least 17 of them are from California, mostly from Northern California.

“I think they are starting to get the message,” he said, noting that gun control is not the issue. Instead he said it was a problem of insufficient mental health funding and not holding people responsible for their crimes.

D’Agostini claimed that what politicians are trying to do goes further than attacking the Second Amendment.

“These gun control laws make criminals out of law-abiding citizens,”  he noted, saying that cities with the strictest gun control laws — such as Chicago, Washington D.C., and San Francisco -—have the highest gun violence. “All they do is create a host of victims.”

Addressing a different topic, the sheriff said some 2,000 CCW (carry and conceal weapon) permits have been issued in this county and he has taken steps to streamline the process for getting one. However, even with a permit, buying a hand gun is problematic because there is presently a shortage of hand guns and ammunition for sale. One audience member asked if it was because Homeland Security was buying up large quantities of items.

The sheriff also commented on the push by state Sen. Mark Leno of San Francisco to make possession of Schedule 1 drugs a misdemeanor. Schedule 1 drugs include mescaline, LSD, heroin, and marijuana. D’Agostini said he spent most of his career working in narcotics and he called the bill “ludicrous,” saying that teenagers across the country are dying from heroin overdoses.

D’Agostini went on to give an update on sheriff operations, saying he has worked to make them more efficient. He said last year they gave back $2.7 million in funding to the county. He said they were able to do so by changing work schedules and that change actually resulted in more deputies on the street. He said they are also doing more proactive enforcement.

In commenting on gangs and the crime rate, the sheriff said the county does have some gang activity and having a casino has added to the crime rate. He said his office receives a half million of the $5.5 million the casino gives El Dorado County every year. But according to a study done a year and a half ago, the annual cost of policing the casino is $737,000.

The sheriff was also questioned about the status of the 42 roads that were closed in the Eldorado National Forest. He noted that the Forest Service has completed a supplemental environmental study and a draft has been posted on its Website for comment. He claimed the Forest Service would like to close the roads it needs to fix but doesn’t have the money to do so. He said he would prefer that the roads remain open as a safety issue since if they are closed, it makes it easier for Mexican drug gangs to use them for growing marijuana.

In conclusion, D’Agostini urged the audience to “get involved. Write those letters. Make those phone calls. Stand up,” he said, as he received a round of applause from the audience.

Also speaking at the meeting was Ivy Larsen, a former speech writer and staff member for Sen. Jim DeMint. She recounted her time working in Washington, D.C., and the fight over amnesty.  She said DeMint has since left the Senate and is the new president of the Heritage Foundation.

Contact Dawn Hodson at 530-344-5071 or dhodson@mtdemocrat.net. Follow @DHodsonMtDemo on Twitter.

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Discussion | 78 comments

  • MorrisMarch 08, 2013 - 1:33 am

    As a part-time resident of El Dorado County and Chicago (as well Dubai, UAE) I take issue with the remarks of our Sheriff concerning gun related crime within the City of Chicago. Specifically, his assertion that gun control has somehow made Chicago a more dangerous city; citing, conveniently for his 'point', unsourced statistics of violent crimes. Apart from the folly of not understanding the actual numbers, the demographics and the sheer density of Chicago's population, the Sheriff is naively misinformed at best and deliberately manipulative at worst. This is quite unfortunate from an otherwise respected and wholly capable law enforcement professional. The truth is the majority of Chicago is a safe place to live; remarkably so when one considers the density of over five million folks (from every nation on Earth) inhabiting a sliver of prime real estate along Lake Michigan. In fact, I feel far safer on the streets of Chicago than I do Sacramento. Arguments could easily be made - with statistics in support - that gun control works in Chicago. Proving or disproving this is not, however, the point of my rebuttal. It is rather this: Shame on you Sheriff D'Agostini for using Chicago as a manipulative crutch to advance your agenda. Further shame on you for embarrassing the residents of El Dorado County with your ignorance of basic statistical analysis. Sheriff, you are far more intelligent than your act demonstrates; leading me to wonder if you believe those you serve to be simpletons. Your scare tactics are unprofessional and unworthy of your office. Dubai City has strict gun control. Dubai has a crime rate of near zero per capita. Gun control has little to do with crime in Dubai yet I could easily make it appear as such. It isn't that simple. In Dubai. In Chicago. Or in El Dorado County. (Note: for the record, I am a gun owner who is neither pro or con the issue of gun control. I find the NRA just as repugnant as I do the ACLU. I fully support the spirit and intent of the 2nd Amendment. Lastly, I believe that if one cannot take it with a bow or a .270 then one should seriously consider going vegan until his marksmanship skills improve)

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  • cookie65March 08, 2013 - 6:31 am

    Morris, it isn't rocket science. Chicago, Detroit, DC, Oakland and many others where the libs have disarmed the law abiding citizens the morgues are full of victims. Have you seen where Chicago is thinking of putting the pictures of unclaimed bodies on the internet? I realize you have your agenda and no amount of facts will dissuade from it but last year Chicago had 500 murders. They weren't commited by law abiding citizens. Do you have any historical knowledge of what happens to useful idiots once they are no longer useful?

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  • Chuck HollandMarch 08, 2013 - 7:04 am

    Morris when in Chicago you must live in a bubble or perhaps another way of putting it, a nice safe and secure gated, guarded community. As recently as Feb 15, 2013 Obama stated in a Chicago speech about gun violence, "A city, where as many children die from guns every four months as were slaughtered at Sandy Hook school in Connecticut." (Does Chicago sound like a nice place to raise children?) With strict gun control laws in Chicago there were 500 homicides in 2012. It appears to this "simpleton" our Sheriff is on point and accurate.

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  • MorrisMarch 08, 2013 - 11:59 am

    To answer Chuck's question, my Chicago residence is in the Lakeshore East neighborhood. It is neither gated nor a 'bubble'; it is a high-rise building. Downtown. While all the comments and opinions are appreciated, I stand by my statements. I know Chicago; its people, its 77 city within a city neighborhoods, its good things and - yes - even it's bad things. Of those bad things - such as the violent crime rate - the vast majority occurs in ONE portion of the 77: The South Side. (An area smaller in size to Sacramento and with many times the population) It is a nightmare. But it is in no way representative of the city as a whole. The vast majority of areas in the city are quite safe places to live and enjoy an extremely high quality of life. Remarkably clean. Remarkably well policed. And I can state these facts because unlike many of those dissenters, Ive actually BEEN to the city. The whole living there thing kinds provides perspective. Notice no opinion was provided regarding Washington DC or NYC...I have no personal experience, research or expertise on these cities. What I do have is real-world experience with Chicago. The Sheriff - obviously - does not. His comments sound more focused on pandering for reelection than working as elected.

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  • cookie65March 08, 2013 - 8:06 am

    The Sheriff's agenda? That is perhaps the most clueless statement I have read here not from Richard or Garon. Is the Sheriff the one attempting to re-write the 2nd Amendment?

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  • 1036-FrankMarch 08, 2013 - 8:14 am

    The real correlation is all of the major crime cities across the country are not only part of the liberal machine politically they also are judicially. The felons are released and armed and dangerous very quickly just as they are here under Moonbeam. Chicago had to bring in a New York Police manager to take over the police department and what he did was go to the DA and have him start doing his job and locking up the armed felons, what happened was an immediate crime reduction. Chicago is a crime problem involving a very dysfunctional judicial system that was letting the armed felon out for more crime while waiting to be sentenced for the last felony, just like liberals do wherever they are in power. Sadly all of these major crime cities were once safe places to live until the liberal machine took over. This entire state will soon be suffering from this plague of bad liberal ideas, tax payers leaving and businesses relocating.

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  • DB SmithMarch 08, 2013 - 8:34 am

    Morris, how can a self professed "professor" that lives in Georgetown profess to be neither pro or con on an issue as important as gun control? God I hope you're retired from the classroom now because your examples and thought patterns are a prime example of what we don't want to expose our young people too. I'll bet you're in the neighborhood of a Ward Churchill kind of guy. Your statement of feeling safer on the Chicago streets than you do on the Sacramento streets is so idiotic. What streets or neighborhoods are you comparing professor? I know in an earlier post of yours you had predicted and described an apocalyptic event and what would happen. Well when is does happen professor, you'd better hope you're right here in El Dorado with Sheriff D'Agostini and not in Chigago, Dubai or Sacramento.

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  • RichardMarch 08, 2013 - 8:37 am

    I find a County Sheriff mocking the Vice President of the United States amusing. I find it even more amusing that the Sheriff position on gun control is literally word for word that of the NRA that represent the 99 billion dollar a year gun industry, and even more amusing the Sheriff thinks mental health is the issue and not guns when he has proudly given out over 2000 carry and conceal weapons permits without thorough mental health checks. It makes me think that the Sheriff doesn’t really understand the issue of gun control and needs to spend a little time away from his jail and a little more time with the general population…. I can only relay my experience with guns and those who feel the need to be constantly armed: As a young man my law enforcement family always had guns around that were locked up in a secure closet and consisted of my grandfather and dads hunting rifles and service revolvers. They were never in any way readily accessible. Anyone could’ve broken into our house and he’d be almost helpless, their guns secured at the other end of the house. That was my experience with “legal” gun ownership. It’s also what I expect of people who advocate “responsible” gun ownership……. Ironically, working with gangbangers years later in Oakland, I discovered them to be the, “ultimate armed libertarians (of a certain font).” They were engaged in the free market of one sort or another, often selling products that were unregulated, resisting any regulations. They took it upon themselves to protect themselves and their families—they didn’t call 911. They were self-made men and women. They were tough individualists, relying only on themselves. Gangbangers don’t have unemployment accounts. If their business activities fail, they don’t get government handouts. In short, they fend for themselves in a dogs eat dog society. So that’s my family experience with guns other than the military. The people who were “responsible” gun owners kept their guns locked up and occasionally went hunting. “The criminals used them for self protection and walked around armed.” The arguments that many make for why they need their guns are founded in logics not that dissimilar from the reasons that inner-city gangbangers walk around armed. In both cases it is founded in a, “notion that the government is not to be trusted and that one’s life is in one’s own hands.”

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  • Jim SweetMarch 08, 2013 - 8:41 am

    Makes sense to me Richard.

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  • DB SmithMarch 08, 2013 - 8:55 am

    Jim Sweet, what Richard says makes sense to you that "criminals/gangbangers walk around armed just for their self protection"? Could you try real hard and think of any other reasons that might make sense to you?

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  • long time localMarch 08, 2013 - 9:15 am

    Morris, You don't even live here. Go back to Chicago and hope you don't become a victim.

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  • 1036-FrankMarch 08, 2013 - 9:26 am

    The Gang-Banger as a libertarian, an interesting concept of a failed society, one seen with the Somali Warlords, Drug Cartels, and corrupt failed countries everywhere. There is truth that there is a greater need in the U.S. for armed self protection in inner-city crime infested rat-holes, most agree, there are large inner-city areas in this country where even the police don't drive into unless called and what most of us want is to prevent more of this type of criminal anarchy to expand elsewhere. Criminal gangs have greatly expanded, caused partly by leaving the border open, the drug trade, and a failed judicial system now releasing thousands of felons on the streets. Liberty to be free from Govt. in all law abiding manner of living, that was what this country was founded upon, and what the Constitution and Amendments protect.

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  • cookie65March 08, 2013 - 9:37 am

    Richard, are you jealous that biden is such an easy target to make fun of? If you had a national stage more people would make fun of you too. The leftists have had their way in places like Chicago and this is the result. http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/21532865/cook-co-to-begin-posting-photos-of-unclaimed-bodies-online

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  • cookie65March 08, 2013 - 9:53 am

    Taking biden's advise will land you in jail. "Just shoot your double barrel shotgun thru your front door".... There is a video of some women taking biden's advise at the end of this story that is freeeeekin hilarious. http://hotair.com/archives/2013/02/28/every-single-bit-of-gun-advice-biden-gives-will-get-you-arrested/

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  • DB SmithMarch 08, 2013 - 10:01 am

    Cookie, I saw that video and yes it is a MUST SEE video. In addition to being hilarious, it's a great demonstration. I wonder if Joe has seen it? HAAAAAA

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  • cookie65March 08, 2013 - 10:07 am

    Morris and Richard, tell us about the success of the leftists creation of gun-free zones. Columbine, Virginia Tech, Aurora, Sandy Hook, Ft. Hood. 97 dead dozens and dozens wouned.

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  • Phil VeerkampMarch 08, 2013 - 10:14 am

    Cookie's LINK - hilarious!

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  • Jim RiordanMarch 08, 2013 - 10:40 am

    Morris, why are you too afraid to use your last name? Please do us a favor and go live in Chicago. You are right on Chuck Holland. On a recent business trip to Chicago I was surprised to pull into an industrial supply store parking lot and be greeted by an armed guard. This, in a well lit, well populated business park area. Guard told me they had shootings and robberies at gun-point in that park almost weekly. I agree with our Sheriff 100%. In fact, I am all for the forming of a well regulated and trained militia for ElDorado County and in support of the EDSO and our citizenry. Morris, if you feel safer in Chicago than you do in Sacramento, then you are obviously NOT a "well traveled man" and you have been only in the best parts of Chicago and the worst parts of Sacramento. Try reversing that . . after dark.. . Actually why don't you just move to Chicago. I have been to the best and worst areas of both cities and it is obvious to me that you are just a "mouth that roars."

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  • DB SmithMarch 08, 2013 - 10:41 am

    Colonel, you have got to see Cookies link via Phil's 10:14a post. Now I gotta go.......

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  • James E.March 08, 2013 - 10:51 am

    DB, well the ladies all looked well trained. Except for the guy at the end who drops his pants -- in addition to his belt, he needs suspenders. And, thank God he was wearing underwear.

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  • Jim RiordanMarch 08, 2013 - 11:03 am

    Cookie, I had already seen that video before and thanks for sharing with others. It truly is hilarious. Biden is such an idiot. I would not put him in charge of an outhouse . . .oh wait, he is partially in charge of one now.

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  • 1036-FrankMarch 08, 2013 - 12:01 pm

    It is interesting to note that Chicago had the highest murder rate last year of major cities yet doesn't make the top 25 of most dangerous cities, Sounds like some type of manipulation of the stats to me. Now Baton Rouge, LA and Flint Michigan are the most dangerous failed liberal welfare state experiments, followed closely by Oakland and Stockton. All seem to have exploding gang populations with their violence and the liberal judicial system at work and early released armed felons everywhere. Sacramento is not on the list anywhere I saw for high crime. The comparison is flawed by reality.

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  • MorrisMarch 08, 2013 - 4:26 pm

    Interesting series of posts. From some. Same rhetoric from others... Why take time to actually compose an intelligent counterpoint when insults say so much more. So ummm.. Yeah... 1. DB: I am not a professor nor have I ever claimed myself as such. 2. DB: Downtown Sacramento is not as safe as downtown Chicago. Fact. 3. Others: There are no gated communities in Chicago. Nor is my residence there in a 'bubble'. In fact, my address is 225 N. Columbus, Chicago 60601. (Note the '60601'. That's downfreakintown. Central. So I kinda got this one covered) 4. How many posters have actually journeyed outside of El Dorado County? (Citrus Heights does not count) 5. Notice no opinion was provided from myself regarding Washington DC or NYC...I have no personal experience, research or expertise on these cities. What I do have is real-world experience with Chicago. The Sheriff - obviously - does not. His comments sound more focused on pandering for reelection than working as elected. 6. In my opinion, Sheriff D'Agostini has performed remarkably in a role where he was largely set up to fail. How? By the horrid economic climate, the dope growers, the dope smokers and resource levels we should be embarrassed by, But on this issue, his facts and corollaries are neither.

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  • cookie65March 08, 2013 - 4:51 pm

    Morris, enlighten me. What does your caveat of "real world experience" have to do with this : "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."? Where do you get the idea that the Sheriff was elected by the residence of El Dorado county to do anything other than uphold the oath he took to defend the Constitution? It is simply astounding to me the number of ways people will invent to avoid the subject of leftists wanting to disarm law abiding citizens. And make up silly if not stupid arguments to attack those who defend those law abiding citizens. Just like in your first post, you metioned the same old leftist tactic of hunting, the 2nd Amendment has zero, zip, nada to do with hunting. You don't support the spirit or intent of the 2nd Amendment, you can't bring yourself to actually say what they are.

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  • MorrisMarch 08, 2013 - 5:03 pm

    Special note for Long Time Loco: My family has been on The Divide for well over 75 years. One branch over 90. I am both a landowner and homeowner here and have been for many years. I have invested in this community, employed folks in this community and take great pride in this community. While I may roam between residences - and I have the right to do so - THIS is my home and I'm not leaving. Deal with it newbie. Besides, there's a big election coming up that ill definitely won't miss.

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  • Long Time LocalMarch 08, 2013 - 6:13 pm

    Morris, Seems I hit a nerve. Ha! YOU are the one who said you are just a part time resident. Deal with that and move on. We're not too interested in "part time residents".

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  • DB SmithMarch 08, 2013 - 5:15 pm

    Morris, you say you take great pride in your community but I do remember how you blasted your community in previous posts. Are you the Georgetown Morris who was calling me BS at that time? Chicago...Morris, Rahm Emanuel, Barry Obumb a, Larry Sinclair.

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  • DeeMarch 08, 2013 - 5:22 pm

    Morris-I worked in downtown Sacramento for decades and have always been comfortable there. So you fear for your safety when on the streets of Sacramento, exactly where are you? As in all metropolitan areas there are good and bad areas. However, Sacramento does not have any of the downtown residential areas that compete with your home away from home in Chicago------ Aqua at Lakeshore East 225 N. Columbus Drive, Chicago IL Aqua is an architecturally world-reknown, mixed-use residential skyscraper located in the Lakeshore East development in the Chicago Loop. The 82-story building was constructed with irregularly-shaped concrete floor plates giving the building its distinctive "towering wave" look. It is the first building in the city to combine condo, hotel and rental units all in one structure. The units at Aqua provide floor-to-ceiling windows with incredible city and lake views. All residents have access to Aqua's Shore Club, a two-level recreational facility containing two pools, a running track, cardio and weight room, a spa and a media room. 215 hotel condominiums 476 rental units 263 luxury condominiums Retail and office space Aqua's Shore Club Three pools, running track Fitness center Lakeshore East Park

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  • DeeMarch 08, 2013 - 5:59 pm

    Morris-Please consider this-CRIMINAL HOMICIDE RATE PER 100,000 POPULATION - 2012 (Preliminary)------- New York City [414 Homicides---Population*: 8,175,133] RATE: 5.1 ------- Chicago [500 Homicides---Population*: 2,695,598] RATE: 18.6 -------- *SOURCE: U.S. Census Bureau, 2010 Decennial Census - Final Data------Using Sacramento PD 2012 numbers their homicide rate is 7.4% ------36 homicides out of a population of 470,956. -----You may feel safer in Chicago than Sacramento, but it is possible the residents a few blocks over would feel safer in Sacramento.----The Sheriff is correct.

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  • DB SmithMarch 08, 2013 - 6:21 pm

    Morris, you say there are no gated communities in Chicago. Do you care to retract that statement? Are you trying to be some kind of undercover real estate agent for S***cago?

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  • DB SmithMarch 08, 2013 - 6:22 pm

    Morris, you say there are no gated communities in Chicago. Do you care to retract that statement? Are you trying to be some kind of undercover real estate agent for Chitcago?

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  • cookie65March 08, 2013 - 6:39 pm

    Morris, what is the intent of the 2nd Amendment?

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  • JoeMarch 08, 2013 - 7:08 pm

    Lawyers and judges interpret laws, police enforce them. Can you imagine the slippery slope it would create to have cops interpreting laws and enforcing them based on their own opinions? Talk about unconstitutional. I dont care if you’re pro or anti guns, you can’t posdibly think that’s a good idea. Plus, if the ban passes, it applies to future gun sales, not current owners. So that law would be enforced federally by the ATF, not by any local law enforcement. The only thing local cops would have to do is the same thing they always do… If they find a gun, they need to know if its legally owned. It doesn’t matter if its a hand gun or assault weapon. So this sheriff needs to get off his high horse and do his job… Enforcing the laws that are put on the books reguradless of their personal opinions.

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  • 1036-FrankMarch 08, 2013 - 7:46 pm

    The Sheriff joined hundreds of other Sheriff's across the state and country to protest the liberals proposals to violate the Constitution and to affirm he will not join in making law abiding citizens criminals without a change in the Constitutional Amendments that are required to disarm the public, not a hard concept. It is not a personal choice, it is an oath of office. The state laws will make common deer and target rifles illegal as proposed and there will be a registration requirement for all semi auto rifles except for a few. These are clear violations of the 2nd Amendment that don't need a legal opinion of anyone, liberals know that the very Constitutions will need to be changed by Amendment, which will likely fail, at the state and federal level, yet they will try to do it anyway thereby requiring the Sheriff's to nullify their actions.

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  • MorrisMarch 08, 2013 - 7:47 pm

    Wow DB. Wow. That's some kind talent you have there in that attempt at revisionist history. As well, selective memory. In one post I'm portrayed by you as having claimed to be a Professor (wholly untrue) and now within your recent post I am supposedly guilty of the past offense of 'blasting' my community. (Also wholly untrue) Please, DB, provide us with the links to support these allegations. I'd love to see what you have in support of these claims. Because you don't. But what is quite curious here is that I somehow have gotten under your skin. In some perverse form of flattery, you remember me. Because I replied to your attempted insults with dear 'BS' instead of dear 'DB'. Wow. See what you left out of that whole selective memory episode is how we 'met' so long ago; specifically your postings in reply to one of my commentaries. In those replies, you provided not once any counterpoint of factual data, not once a pro/con supporting agree/disagree....not a single attempt at even a basic adult difference of opinion. Nope. What you provided were flip one or two liners with childish schoolyard-like attempts at insulting me, my education and my family. It was then - and ONLY then DB - that you became, in my opinion, BS. Seems to me that you can sure dish it out. But boy howdy look at what you've clung to after some of your own damn BS playground tanbark flew right back at you. Wow. Wow!

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  • DB SmithMarch 08, 2013 - 8:03 pm

    Morris, if I'm wrong about the professor thing I will apologize, but, my memory has served me well regarding the rest of your sorry ars. I'll review and get back w/u. Now see...I didn't even have to write a book to explain all that.

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  • TahoedadMarch 08, 2013 - 8:12 pm

    D’Agostini is 100% wrong on the facts. Classic live-in-your-own-Fox-news bubble statement: “It is well known and proven with facts, not emotional inference, that gun control of any kind, has no effect on the reduction of crime, anywhere.” Oh, really? John Howard, former conservative prime minister of Australia, recently wrote an op-ed piece titled, “Australia Banned Assault Weapons, America Can Too,” in which he stated: “In the 18 years before the 1996 reforms, Australia suffered 13 gun massacres — each with more than four victims — causing a total of 102 deaths. There has not been a single massacre in that category since 1996. (when Australia banned assault weapons). Few Australians would deny that their country is safer today as a consequence of gun control.”

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  • cookie65March 08, 2013 - 8:25 pm

    Tahoedad, aside from the fact that we are talking about the 2nd Amendment and not Austalia or any other place. http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

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  • cookie65March 08, 2013 - 8:28 pm

    It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.

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  • cookie65March 08, 2013 - 8:37 pm

    Joe, if you are talking about my comment where I asked Morris what the "intent" of the 2nd Amendment was, it was a question about his claim that he "supported the intent and the spirit of the 2nd Amendment". If he can claim to support the "intent" he should at least be able to state what he thinks it is. The intent of the second Amendment can be found in the Declaration of Independence along with hundreds of other writings from those who wrote and signed it. "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.-"

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  • 1036-FrankMarch 08, 2013 - 8:55 pm

    The argument can be made that the safest country with the lowest crime rate has the highest rate of gun possession, Switzerland. It was not attacked by Germany in WWII for that reason. Every male 18 an over is required to have a fully automatic military grade rifle at the ready, not even locked away. It is a common sight for residents to hang their rifles like coats in cafes, every town just about has a gun range. This is our kind of country to emulate.

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  • Phil VeerkampMarch 08, 2013 - 9:04 pm

    Dammit, Cookie! Tahoedad probably just wants to point out that gun control is not rocket surgery. Back off.

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  • MorrisMarch 09, 2013 - 2:00 am

    For those interested, here is a brief 'Chicago 101'. (from my perspective) Imagine hundreds of downtown Placervilles squeezed into a few dozen downtown Placervilles. Mix in a few hundred skyscrapers. Toss with 5 - 8 million people (City to Metro Area approx.) Add in all the cars in Northern California. Remove 75% of all the parking spaces in Northern California. Heck, who needs the expense of owning a car when the finest of everything is within either walking distance, 5 minute cab ride or 15 minute ride on the EL that runs every 3 minutes. And if you really need a car...hit the ZipCar App on your iPhone for the access code to one parked on your block and ready to roll by the hour. Or have it delivered; just like your groceries, laundry and frozen yogurt by the cup. You can even haveMacaroni and Cheese delivered at any time. Even hookers that don't look like hookers too. (Mac-n-Cheese optional) Fly local trains overhead and underfoot in the subway as well. Mix with Amtrak sized commuter trains....say about 30 of 'em all going different directions. Blend with two ginormous airports, highways, tollways, skyways, commuter ferries and non-stop construction. Now squeeze it all in half again and border on one side with a ocean lake. Cut a river / canals around two of the remaining sides and then slice it all in half. Make it 24/7 365. People out night and day. Make it expensive. Add lots of free stuff like concerts and festivals. Food trucks too!! And just for giggles, throw in every people from every nation speaking every language; all clustered by nationality within 77 distinctly different neighborhoods further delineated by more sub-neighborhoods within neighborhoods. Have stores that actually sell meatloaf. Just meatloaf. 60 different ways. Press GO and make it all work amazingly well with clean streets, friendly people and a near absence of panhandlers. Make it all work...but only for one side of the river. The larger side. The side with all the money, resources, beaches and beautiful light-skinned people. The side with no guns and no spray paint. The safe side. The North Side. Toss everything darker than us onto the other side. The side with the dirty industry we don't want blocking our view of all that beauty. The poor we don't wish to bother us with their neediness, the working poor who clean up after us and their poorly attired unattended children too. The side where you can't go out at night and you sleep on the floor so as to avoid the stray bullets of the only people who seem to have any money: The gangs. Remove grocery stores, hospitals, grass, cabs, pharmacies, parks, role models and hope. Replace with liquor stores, gangsters, desperation, streetwalkers, pimps and dope. Stack 'em high in concrete cesspools of the projects but call it something nice like Robert Taylor Homes so we feel better about it. (Concrete Cesspool Homes really just doesn't have a nice ring of Christian charity) Let it be for a few generations so as to become 'normal' for those born unto this place. So as to not remember what the path out is. Or that there IS a path. Finally, ensure that the worst economy in our lifetime hits and hits harder to those already on the edge. THIS is where those awful numbers are. This is the South Side. Chicago has always been - and likely will always be - two cities. Divided by a river. You are either Cubs or Sox. North Sider or South Sider. Neither side can legally own a handgun or purchase spray paint. Yet one side is quite safe and relatively graffiti free. The other is not. So the arguments pro and arguments con can fit depending upon how one manipulates the truth to support their desired result or the agenda' being served. In my opinion - and in my Chicago experience - neither pro or con is the solution to violent crime. What is? I don't know. But I think it has something to do with: Jobs. Fathers. Money. Parks. Education. Church. Community. Rehab. Schools without gangs. Mothers who aren't Mothers until finished being teenagers. Volunteers. Real jobs for felons who successfully paid their debt to society and embrace future right over past wrong. Role models.....Hope. I don't think guns make us any more safe or any more at risk. I think we all have it terribly, terribly wrong. The issue. All of us. Myself included.

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  • TahoedadMarch 09, 2013 - 5:55 am

    Its reasonable to consider that a state law should be passed that would allow a citizen to petition the courts for removal of a high powered semi-automatic assault type weapon from your neighbor premises if it threatens the health and safety of you and your family. After all, the neighboring families are really the ones in risk from the over-spray should your adrenaline propelled hell bent on shooting a gun FOX news survivalist Twinkie neighbor start shooting. There are all kinds of gun range rules, why not some community gun rules.

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  • cookie65March 09, 2013 - 6:08 am

    Tahoechild, Fox didn't write the 2nd Amendment, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution or cause the leftists dream of gun-free zones to lead to the deaths of so many innocent people. I realize how difficult it is for people of your maturity level to deal with a few drops of psuedo conservatism in an ocean of liberalism and anything that allows an opposing point of view to what you have been indoctrinated with. Just for historical reference the leftists in country after country after country have gone after citizens owning guns long before your obsession with fox news ever existed. What your neighbor owns is none of your business. You are free to live in your fantasy utopia with your unicorns and pixie dust but most of us will stay in reality.

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  • robertdnollMarch 09, 2013 - 6:39 am

    Germany did not attack Switzerland because they needed a safe place to park their money

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  • cookie65March 09, 2013 - 7:10 am

    robert, what made Switzerland "a safe place"? And by the way, it wasn't "their" money. It was the money they stole from everyone they had disarmed.

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  • R.J. CarterMarch 09, 2013 - 7:11 am

    Hey Bob...Nobody attacks the Swiss, not even the Swiss!!!.....But, according to some historians, it was on Hitler's "things to do" list....

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  • cookie65March 09, 2013 - 7:53 am

    R.J. you are spot on. Switzerland's fate was the same fate as all useful idiots once they are no longer useful. They were part of the 3rd Reich empire that was to last 1,000 years. They were a "loose end" to the socialist regime the same way the 2nd Amendment is to our modern day socialists. There is a quote in one of the Star Wars movies that is a perfect expression of the leftists in this country. "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause."

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  • cookie65March 09, 2013 - 7:59 am

    All you have to do to see how gun control turns out for a free people is visit an Indian Reservation. You don't have to travel to Auschwitz.

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  • GlennMarch 09, 2013 - 8:02 am

    Who are theses nuts who keep beating the drum of the lost gun control issue. Gun control is what the majority of the people in our nation want, get used to it.

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  • robertdnollMarch 09, 2013 - 8:11 am

    RJ,i agree hitler would have invaded Switzerland but the reason he hadn't was not because the population was armed

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  • DB SmithMarch 09, 2013 - 9:08 am

    Morris, It was last year that I thought I remembered you mentioning that you were a retired professor. Well I can't prove or disprove the "professor" comment and I don't have the time to keep looking through the archives for evidence so I'll have to apologize for that one. If I were to visit the "South Side" of Chitcago I know I would feel much safer w/a gun.

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  • cookie65March 09, 2013 - 9:58 am

    Glenn, we all appreciate your demonstration of indocrination over information. Even our local media (not the brightest group) has a problem with the claim that a majority support gun restrictions. I do realize that you learned the strategy favored by leftists, if you repeat it often enough it will become reality, but you provide us with nothing but what you want to believe as evidence. http://www.news10.net/news/article/233840/2/Reality-Check-Gun-poll-in-California-districts-uses-shaky-assumptions

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  • GlennMarch 09, 2013 - 10:54 am

    How about the last election nut case, do you need more proof?

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  • cookie65March 09, 2013 - 11:35 am

    You must be talking about the election where people voted for obama 6 times and obama got 100% of the vote in places that have 70% illiteracy. Have you noticed how 60+% of the country think the country under obama is heading in the wrong direction. I realize that you attribute people voting for trillions in entitlements is proof of something but the only thing it is proof of is how much destruction leftistism has done to destroy the foundations of this country.

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  • cookie65March 09, 2013 - 11:48 am

    Here is a poll from the obama cheerleaders at the Washington Post that shows the opposite of what the leftist media has trained you to believe. Across the board federal spending cuts excluding the military. Is that what your "majority" voted for in November? http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/03/06/cut-government-spending-sure-cut-the-military-no-way/

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  • James E.March 09, 2013 - 12:10 pm

    Not related to the Sheriff, but I note that Senator McConnell is already running ads knocking Ashley Judd because she has appeared naked in movies (this before she has actually declared as an opponent). Seems to me that voters in Kentucky would want to see nude pictures of Senator McConnell so they could best judge the candidates given the Senator has raised the subject. I've never seen Senator McConnell naked (thank you God), but I'm going to give Ashley the edge. Kentuckians, vote for the best body because Senator McConnell believes naked bodies are important in politics. If they do, it will be a landslide for Ashley.

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  • cookie65March 09, 2013 - 12:16 pm

    What do you think of the panywaist temper tantrum being thrown by the child-in-chief by not allowing 6th graders to visit the Whitehouse after the last 4 years of spending their money? Talk about a pathetic example of what the left is. A bunch of whiny sniveling little babies. You do know that what he charged the taxpayers for his golf weekend would pay for an entire year of Whitehouse tours. Have you seen all the pinocchio's he has gotten for his lies about sequester? A leftist news outlet is reporting it. They can censor the news for only so long. http://www.politico.com/politico44/2013/03/obama-administration-sequester-claims-shot-down-by-158626.html

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  • cookie65March 09, 2013 - 12:25 pm

    James, McConnell is illustrating a serious lack of vision among our career politicians. If that is the best he can do he no longer useful to the American people. Politics has become a celebrity sport. That isn't a good thing but it is the truth. obama is the proof of it. We long ago quit electing the most qualified in favor of who has the best production. How is the little dog?

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  • James E.March 09, 2013 - 12:39 pm

    Cookie, Mr. Fred is on the mend. He is a little slowed down because of the metal staples on his stomach wound. Those will be removed on Tuesday and his chemo will begin. Given the type of cancer he has my Vet daughter advises me that he could be good to go for the next two years. Regardless of the time he has left we will enjoy every minute with Mr. Fred. An old friend contacted my wife and asked her, "Is Mr. Fred a relative?" Confusion existed because most dogs are Fred and not Mr. Fred. So why did we name him Mr. Fred. Don't know, just looked at him and said, "That's Mr. Fred." Never used Mr. before and never will again as there is only one Mr. Fred. We do get a little silly with our little friends.

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  • cookie65March 09, 2013 - 1:11 pm

    That is great news James. My dogs have lots of silly names and they know all of them. I can call any one of my 4 dogs and the one I call will come to me. Staples are not fun especially around the belly. My first set were from the belly button straight down to well below the belt line, 14 of them. It sounds like what Mr Fred had responds well to treatment and that is the best news of all.

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  • CherylMarch 09, 2013 - 1:42 pm

    James and Cookie, my dogs all have middle names and one of them has four nicknames and responds to each one. Good luck to Mr. Fred. We can all come together when it comes to our pets!

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  • James E.March 09, 2013 - 4:46 pm

    Again, not germane to the Sheriff but it is germane to the rule of law that us little folks have to adhere to or suffer the consequences. This apparently is not true of big banks. Attorney General Holder has now informed us that while they can get fines in civil actions, it is impossible to bring criminal charges against the big banks. Thinking being that if they were charge criminally, the financial markets of the United States would just crumble. This has caused my BS detector to go off big time. May I suggest they could charge the CEO, COO, and CFO of a bank, say Wells Fargo, prosecute them and give them 10 years in jail without the possibility of parole. Would Wells Fargo fold and bring disaster to our financial markets? No, they would just pay their civil fine and hire a new CEO, COO, and CFO. Hopefully these new officials would ponder whether they would enjoy 10 years in prison, so their actions would be guided by that consideration. I know Holder's background is lawyering for financial institutions. What is going on here? Is he making sure he has employment options after he leaves office? Bottom line: My BS detector is so loud it is hurting my ears, even though I have hearing problems from years in helicopters.

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  • cookie65March 09, 2013 - 8:39 pm

    James, are you beginning to see the house of cards for what it is? Imagine what the headlines would be if it were Mitt Romney. Millions of people were fooled and they got the opposite of what they thought they were voting for. But if you ask them they are the most educated and informed among us. This is the most opaque administration in American history and it was fully dependent on the most ignorant people in our history for re-election.

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  • cookie65March 09, 2013 - 8:57 pm

    James, you know what the biggest disgrace is? If you google it not a single main stream media outlet is reporting it. That is an absolute failure of what the founders considered to be the 4th branch of government. No wonder obama was re-elected. The media has chosen sides. Of course I knew that a lifetime ago. My obsticle has been trying to get others to figure it out. They call me names for trying to get them to see it.

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  • cookie65March 09, 2013 - 8:59 pm

    "obstacle"

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  • James E.March 09, 2013 - 9:09 pm

    Cookie, when a first year law student, while discussing the finding in a case, jumps up and says "That finding by the court is just not fair." The professor "firmly" informs that student and the class that he doesn't want to ever hear that again as there is no fairness in the law. The professor appears to be right, as I'm disturbed when the Attorney General, the first lawman of the country, admits in public that it wouldn't be "fair" to prosecute crimes perpetrated by the officials of the big banks. Damn their eyes, if they steal from the people they must be held to account. I've commented previously that the administration thinks it's not "fair" to prosecute war crimes. Now it's not "fair" to prosecute big bank crimes. What's next? The Rule of Law? A fraud. The house of cards? I've never been naive about our government. Some good, some bad. Spin the wheel, and good luck to us all.

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  • James E.March 09, 2013 - 9:15 pm

    Cookie, yes, absent from the media. Should be front page news!! Maybe buried in the back, if it appears at all. The media was supposed to keep the b*stards honest. The have also become frauds. Note: Had to do the * or the censor would cancel this comment.

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  • James E.March 09, 2013 - 9:37 pm

    Oh, and did I forget to say that the pediment at the Supreme Court reads "Equal Justice Under Law." Guess that's going to have to be chipped off and replaced with "Random Justice Under Law."

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  • cookie65March 10, 2013 - 9:10 am

    James, this thread has brought out people who want obama to ban the 2nd Amendment. Do they want him to ban the 1st the 4th or the 15th? They don't have the slightest clue what they are supporting. As far as equal under the law is concerned, if that were held up every politician in DC would be in jail. They practice excluding themsleves from the laws passed on the rest of us. The implications of the president choosing which laws to enforce and which laws not to enforce, who to enforce them against and who not to are a pandora's box. The rule of law is what holds a society together. When people vote for someone based on class warfare they are giving that person permission to take money from one person and give it to another without any conciderattion of which direction that money is going to go, just an assumption. He said the right words to play on their jealousy and envy and leave them believing the money would flow from the "rich" to them. They get what they deserve but in the mean time their self-centered motives are going to cost us all. They have no clue how they have been played and the media isn't going to tell them.

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  • cookie65March 10, 2013 - 9:20 am

    *consideration

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  • R.J. CarterMarch 10, 2013 - 10:27 am

    With our mainstream media pimping it's-self out to a Nation of ill-informed, dielectrics who are able to merely vote themselves "free stuff", the next Amendment to be burned will no doubt be our 22nd.......

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  • Paddy O'March 10, 2013 - 10:47 am

    Speaking of banksters................ https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FOC2ea2tpPY

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  • MorrisMarch 10, 2013 - 4:54 pm

    Wow DB. That was a rather swift return to the eloquent phonics of days past. Thought we worked this out with your apology and all. Oh well. Happy Passive-Aggressive Day to ya bud. You asked if I would like to retract my statement concerning gated communities. My answer: Non. Je ne regrette rien. (That outta keep you busy for a while) No matter who is accurate on this one, you did call my attention back to the statement. It's rather absolute. My point would have been better served by saying 'I am not aware of any gated communities in the city of Chicago'. Mind you, I'm not going to change it tho...bets are on the table and it appears you really really really (oh boy! i got him now!) really really want to show your cards. Lets see the Full Gated House bubba. (Good gawd I think I can actually HEAR your little squeals of anticipation. That noise...reminds me of...hmmm...got it: Roscoe P. Coaltrain)

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  • DB SmithMarch 10, 2013 - 5:06 pm

    Morris, that's a whole lotta a bla, bla, bla when all you really had to admit to and say was you screwed up. You poor little insecure Chitcagonian.

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  • MorrisMarch 10, 2013 - 7:56 pm

    Ummm... DB? We're still waiting for that trump card of yours. All you brought to the table was your bus pass. So when you stop touching yourself inappropriately while dancing a little kookie dance around your netbook in the Day Room, understand that I did not retract my statement nor intend to. You got nothing. Except my amusement. That, it seems, you'll always have.

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  • DB SmithMarch 10, 2013 - 8:21 pm

    Well you're one nasty little cuss aren't you Morris? Your continued and awkward attempts at trying to impress someone hasn't worked but you are quite the kick. I think the only person you're impressing is you. Ha! Is your nasty little licentious butt still volunteering in the classroom? If you are you should not be allowed around kids. Don't let it bug you too much and try to get a good night's sleep Chitcagonian.

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