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My turn: The debt crisis

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From page A4 | October 16, 2013 | 149 Comments

The debt limit exists for a simple reason: to assure that public debt isn’t recklessly piled up without Congress periodically acknowledging it and addressing the spending patterns that are causing it. If a debt limit increase is supposed to be automatic, as the President suggests, there really is no purpose to it.

A new dimension has now appeared in this discussion. Unlike every one of his predecessors, this President has vowed that unless Congress unconditionally raises the debt limit, the United States will default on its sovereign debt.

But a failure to raise the debt limit would not by itself cause the nation to default. The Government Accountability Office has consistently held that the Treasury Secretary has “the authority to choose the order in which to pay obligations of the United States” to protect the nation’s credit. Such authority is inherent in the 1789 act that established the Treasury Department and entrusted it with the “management of the revenue” and the “support of public credit.” The affirmative duty of the Treasury Department to do so is underscored by the 14th Amendment.

Our revenues are more than ten times our debt payments, so paying the debt first to prevent a sovereign default is well within the financial ability of the federal government – and indeed, it is a fiscal imperative.

Earlier this year, the House passed HR 807, which not only explicitly requires the payment of the national debt in the case of an impasse over the debt limit, but even allows the President to exceed the debt limit itself in order to protect the nation’s credit.

That measure languishes in the Senate under the threat of a Presidential veto.

Protecting the sovereign credit by prioritizing payments would mean delaying paying other bills – which is untenable, unthinkable and something much to be avoided. But it would not imperil the nation’s sovereign credit. Only the President can do that.

The House leadership met with the President last week and offered to extend the debt limit until November 22nd with no strings attached. The President refused. Senate Republicans offered a six month extension, but the Senate Democratic leader refused.

What the President threatens to do would be catastrophic and unprecedented. The full faith and credit of the United States is what gives markets the confidence to loan money to the federal government. Even a credible threat of default – exactly the kind the President is now making — could have dire consequences to a nation that now owes more than its entire economy produces in a year.

So where do we go from here?

Republicans have miscalculated on two key assumptions: First, that the Democrats would negotiate the issues that divide the country; they have not. Second, that Democrats would seek to minimize the suffering caused by the impasse; they have not.

Given the ruthless and vindictive way the shutdown has been handled, I now believe that this President would willfully act to destroy the full faith and credit of the United States unless the Congress acquiesces to all of his demands, at least as long as he sees political advantage in doing so. His every statement and action is consistent with this conclusion.

If the Republicans acquiesce, the immediate crisis will quickly vanish, credit markets will calm and public life will return to other matters.

But a fundamental element of our Constitution will have been destroyed. The power of the purse will have shifted from the representatives of the people to the executive. The executive bureaucracies will be freed to churn out ever more outlandish regulations with no effective Congressional review or check through the purse. A perilous era will have begun, in which the President sets spending levels and vetoes any bill falling short of his demands. Whenever a deadline approaches, one house can simply refuse to negotiate with the other until Congress is faced with the Hobson’s choice of a shut-down or a default.

The nation’s spending will again dangerously accelerate, the deficit will again rapidly widen, and the economic prosperity of the nation will continue to slowly bleed away.

This impasse may have started as a dispute over a collapsing health program but it has now taken on the dimensions of a Constitutional crisis.

Yesterday in Washington, a group of America’s veterans rose up to take a stand against these constitutional usurpations. I believe the salvation of our nation now depends on the American people joining them.

Rep. Tom McClintock, R-Elk Grove, represents the 4th Congressional District, which includes El Dorado County.

Tom Mcclintock

LEAVE A COMMENT

Discussion | 149 comments

  • James E.October 14, 2013 - 5:13 pm

    We have heard over time the demands of the Tea/Republicans; everything but the kitchen sink. What has been the president's demand? That the House do its duty to pay the bills they have previously authorized. American veterans Tom, or Tea/Republican veterans? A Confederate flag waved in front of the White House. What's next? South Carolina shelling the Ft. Sumter National Monument? And, by the way you didn't mention your electric car. How is that driving?

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  • JanetOctober 16, 2013 - 11:33 am

    Tom McClintock Voted NO on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act. (Feb 2013)

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  • JanetOctober 16, 2013 - 5:20 pm

    In 2010, President Obama achieved what had eluded chief executives for 100 years: universal healthcare. Since the late 1880s, America has been wrestling with putting in place some system to provide its citizens with affordable health care. Teddy Roosevelt was the first president to propose universal health care but politics caused him to drop it. FDR had universal health care in his original vision for Social Security, but politics came into play again, and he cut it out when it threatened the passage of the bill. Every president since — even Ronald Reagan — proposed universal health care only to have politics put an end to it.

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  • EvelynOctober 16, 2013 - 5:54 pm

    Janet: Making people buy INSURANCE, under threat of punitive IRS penalties, most assuredly is NOT UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE.

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  • kggOctober 16, 2013 - 6:22 pm

    eveyln wrote: "Making people buy INSURANCE, under threat of punitive IRS penalties, most assuredly is NOT UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE." kgg wrote: in the real world: "universal: encompassing all of the members of a class or group."

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  • EvelynOctober 16, 2013 - 6:29 pm

    kgg: insurance ≠ health care

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  • R J CarterOctober 16, 2013 - 8:25 pm

    Janet says....President Obama achieved what had eluded chief executives for 100 years????:.... Seems I read somewhere Adolf Hitler established universal healthcare in the late 1930's for his Nazi Party....AND...Another glaring coincidence is Obama's HOPE and CHANGE symbol.... Hitler was the only other politician besides Obama who created his own symbol for HOPE and CHANGE (the swastika).......Just food for thought....

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 16, 2013 - 11:39 am

    Janet, thank you. I am much relieved to hear that Congressman Tom McClintock did not vote to reauthorize violence against women. Although, in all honesty, I HAVE HAD my moments of doubt.

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  • VernOctober 16, 2013 - 4:12 am

    I’m a veteran making the lower end of an average wage and would stand to benefit from the Affordable Health Care Act, if I understand it correctly. I’m employed by a smaller business in Placerville that is not providing health insurance for my family, wife and three daughters 21 to 26. I’m 64 years old, not elderly yet. I’m also not the poorest. I’m beginning to realize that the Affordable Health Care Act will benefit my family and I will be grateful to anyone, even the Democrats for the benefits. To conservative Republicans like McClintock, it doesn’t seem to be about anything but losing big numbers of people like me in the middle class to the ranks of the Democrats and this seems to me what’s motivating McClintock to the extreme measures of giving his support to efforts to close down our government. My neighbor is a US Army veteran who worked for Michigan-Cal for years who relies each month on his 100% disability and Social Security checks to pay his mortgage. He also is a Republican, NRA member and has been all his life. I wonder what his feelings will be if he doesn’t get what he’s earned next month.

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  • VernOctober 16, 2013 - 7:41 am

    In 2008 campaign McClintock’s opponent Doug Ose ran campaign commercials criticizing McClintock for receiving payments totaling over $300,000 in per diem living expenses during his time in the Calif. Senate despite the fact that he lived in Elk Grove, near Sacramento, for most of the year. McClintock maintained that the payments were justified because his legal residence was in Thousand Oaks, California his State Senate district. He stated, "Every legislator's [Sacramento area] residence is close to the Capitol. My residential costs up here are much greater than the average legislator because my family is here.” However, Ose's campaign commercials argued McClintock does not own or rent home in the 19th district, but uses his mother's address.

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  • cookie65October 16, 2013 - 6:04 am

    Look at all those poor victims out there who wouldn't eat without the crumbs they get from the benevolent government. They wouldn't have their free iphones, their $150 airjordans, they wouldn't have their flat screen, their internet, their microwaves, their airconditioning, their free healthcare, and all the other necessities of life. Watch how rabid the left gets over imaginary money we don't have. Leftists use dependence for power and control. You cannot have your freedom taken from you, you must give it away.

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  • cookie65October 16, 2013 - 6:06 am

    Vern, I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.

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  • DavidOctober 16, 2013 - 6:17 am

    can someone please explain to me how these tea/repubs have no problem getting social security and medicare. Hypocrisy Hypocrisy Hypocrisy,,,,,,,,, Phil??????????

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  • Dee#1October 16, 2013 - 6:55 am

    David, it might have something to do with the fact that, with a gun to or heads, we paid into the trust fund. The fact that the Government stole the money and replaced it with worthless T-bonds that they don't want to redeem is not the fault of the Seniors. Here are poll numbers the explain a little clearer the types of policies that Tea Party members think might help save Social Security for YOU and your children. It way, way past time there was a serious discussion regarding reform of Social Security/Medicare.-------[Skocpol and Williamson] make abundant use of polling data to argue that when it comes to slashing government spending, Tea Partiers draw the line at those two programs [Social Security and Medicare]. But their empirical case is a bit one-sided. For example, they cite a Public Policy Polling survey in which Tea Partiers, like the rest of the population, overwhelmingly preferred raising the Social Security tax to having “benefits cut and the retirement age increased to age 69.” But just a few months later, at the height of the debate over Paul Ryan’s plan to slash and privatize Medicare, the same polling firm found that when asked to choose between “raising taxes on the wealthiest 2% of Americans or privatizing Medicare” to close the deficit, the general population favored the former (64% to 22%) while the Tea Partiers favored the latter (52% to 36%). Skocpol and Williamson note a New York Times poll in which 62% of Tea Partiers say Social Security and Medicare are “worth the cost” to taxpayers. (Not hugely different from the 76% of the general population who said so.) But in the same poll, self-described supporters of “smaller government” were asked whether they would favor it if it “required cuts in spending on domestic programs such as Social Security, Medicare, education, or defense.” Only 29% of the general population were willing to go that far. Among Tea Partiers the number was 67%. Now… it’s indisputable that Tea Partiers make some kind of conceptual distinction between universal programs like Social Security and Medicare and other government programs. But this says less about the Tea Party than it does about universal social programs. It is easy for liberals to point to the Tea Partiers and call them bigots because they make a distinction between “people on welfare” and “normal people.” But in fact it’s the state that has made that distinction. When the state operates a means-tested or other conditional program, it inspects each citizen and stamps him or her as belonging to one category or the other, either as part of a “food stamp class” or a “normal American” class. By contrast, no one is perceived as being part of the “Social Security class” — or, rather, everyone is perceived as belonging to it together.

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  • cookie65October 16, 2013 - 6:18 am

    Tom, I see you still haven't learned what leftism is. You are attempting to persuade irrational people with rational means. IT DOES NOT WORK. You are also using mathematics to debate people who believe 2+2=7. You are dealing with people who have the emotional development and maturity of children. Trying to persuade them is futile. Be an anchor, forget about them and defend the future generations who aren't here to have any say in the catastrophe the compassionate left leaves for them.

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  • cookie65October 16, 2013 - 6:22 am

    David, are you asking about the people who worked their entire lives and had their money confiscated from them against their will, or are you asking about the obama voters who have lived off the government trough their entire lives and who have never contributed a dime?

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  • DavidOctober 16, 2013 - 6:53 am

    I am asking about the people who are using a government supported program and are ranting and raving against government supported programs. Simple as that. And don't feed me this stuff about having there money confiscated. They are very happy about getting it now! Its funny you talk about Obama voters because all the white trash abusing welfare don't vote.

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  • cookie65October 16, 2013 - 6:59 am

    David, do you ever answer a direct question? Did you see what happened a couple of days ago with the glitch in the EBT card system? Do you think anyone of those career welfare obama voters have the slightest clue the money they get for free comes from the mouths of people who earned it and what they experienced is no different than what those who EARNED the money experience when they come up short because of what gets CONFISCATED from them?

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  • cookie65October 16, 2013 - 7:18 am

    David, enlighten me, what does leftism create and/or produce? I anxiously await your highly educationed response.

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 16, 2013 - 7:54 am

    David, "10/15/2013 EFT TRANS - SSA TREAS 310 " YIPPEE!!!

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  • R J CarterOctober 16, 2013 - 8:00 am

    As per David's 6:53 A.M. comment he said;... "All the white trash abusing welfare don't vote" ...Well David, free stuff is a very shiny lure, so I'm sure bottom-feeding Obama voters come in all shades of skin color, but I can't help wonder who's worse ..Those abusing welfare who never get up and go vote, or those "living off the tit" who purposely get bussed in to vote Democrat because they know they'll receive free cell phones and the other fun Government handouts???.....

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  • cookie65October 16, 2013 - 8:21 am

    The NYTimes is running a woe-is-me, obama-the-victim story on the embarrassing, humiliating and even mortifying launch of the $634million, 3 1/2 years obamacare disaster. The problem with their attempt at creating a narrative to cover for such an unequalled show of incompetence is their assumption that it was "supposed" to work. I laugh myself silly at the notion that I am supposed to believe anything that oozes for the excrement hole in the face of leftists.

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  • cookie65October 16, 2013 - 8:28 am

    Ok, it looks as though David is taking a pass on my inquiry. "David, enlighten me, what does leftism create and/or produce? I anxiously await your highly educationed response." Would any other of the room temperature obamavoters like to offer up even one example of what leftism creates or produces? Generational welfare, poverty, dependence, class warfare, anger, envy and rage don't count.

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  • R J CarterOctober 16, 2013 - 8:34 am

    Cookie....You may want to pace yourself ...At this rate you'll be spent by the time James crawls out of bed...LOL......

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  • cookie65October 16, 2013 - 8:52 am

    R J, I could write all day on the evil, depraved, disgusting foundation, execution and results of leftists theories off the top of my head. I would offer them another question that they won't touch with a 10ft. pole. Is what we have seen and know about the obamacare roll out due to stupidity, incompetence or intentional? Can you imagine the leftist media reaction if we had a republican prez behind this shinning example of government efficiency?

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  • cookie65October 16, 2013 - 8:55 am

    Does obamacare cover a glass bellybutton so the obamavoters can see where they are going?

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  • Oh BrotherOctober 16, 2013 - 9:05 am

    Kooky can write all day wired up from something...what do you live on Kooky?? you obviously don't work because you live on your keyboard 24/7?? where is your income from??

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  • cookie65October 16, 2013 - 9:18 am

    Oh brother, I didn't waste my time playing the victim and believing I was dealt a raw deal being born in the land of opportunity. I realized at a young age that 99% of those who have ever lived on this rock couldn't even dream of what this country offers. To bad you learned something else.

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  • Oh BrotherOctober 16, 2013 - 9:50 am

    come on kooky answer the question answer the question answer the question answer the question...hope you have enjoyed a little taste of your craziness....I actually don't care where you get your income from nor do I care about your rantings...just had to give you a hard time and some other thing to babble on about....

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  • cookie65October 16, 2013 - 9:58 am

    Oh brother, since you raised your hand, would you care to offer and example of anything leftism produces and/or creates? Throw us a bone.

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  • James E.October 16, 2013 - 10:00 am

    Phil, I went to that site you referenced concerning animals and it was "Warnings from God?" God says take your money out of the bank and hide it in the backyard? Or, close to that??

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  • James E.October 16, 2013 - 10:02 am

    Cookie, I have read the comments you have made so far today, and if you could get on KFBK you could be the new Rush Limbaugh. This is a compliment.

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  • Oh BrotherOctober 16, 2013 - 10:05 am

    sorry kooky, not going to throw you a bone just to read your rants some more...even the poor woman with cancer got not one ounce of empathy from you..just a lecture on your post...what a tragic and unhappy life you must have experienced or are experiencing.

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 16, 2013 - 10:17 am

    Yes, James. I directed you to a crackpot site. Sorry. Sometimes my wife ought to give me her wise council.

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  • James E.October 16, 2013 - 10:24 am

    Wandering around the Internet I see that the House will accept the Senate deal and will vote today. Senator Cruz said he would not obstruct the deal. It will be interesting to see the House vote -- how many Republicans will jump the fence? I'm sure Tom is sad given his piece in the paper today. Tom, sorry, the country is not nuts.

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  • rodOctober 16, 2013 - 11:12 am

    Oh brother, hey its you again. I owe an apology, but not to you. It would be for your brother with a mental retardation disability and my use of the term 'retard'. And since I suspect your brother did not vote democrat, I have to conclude he is infinitely smarter than you. So why don't U give us something intelligent, something that will raise the level of discussion here.

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  • rodOctober 16, 2013 - 11:13 am

    Thanks Tom for your perspective. And let's make no mistake, Barack Obama (may peace be upon him) would like nothing more than to see chaos reign, "let no crisis go to waste". His race baiting in the Travon/Martin issue almost succeeded in a race war... and now a financial collapse completely within his control is at hand. ANY excuse to pull the plug on congress by declaring Martial Law would work perfectly for the democrat Marxist state.

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  • JanetOctober 16, 2013 - 11:50 am

    For those of you who dont know, there is a Rod on Congressmens staff........

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 16, 2013 - 11:58 am

    . . . so . . . uh . . . spare the rod spoil the child?

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 16, 2013 - 12:02 pm

    . . . thinking . . . rod and staff . . . hmmm . . .

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  • robertdnollOctober 16, 2013 - 11:25 am

    still using filth to spice up your language

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  • rodOctober 16, 2013 - 11:59 am

    Janet, different rod...

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  • R J CarterOctober 16, 2013 - 12:04 pm

    Apparently Janet doesn't agree with Rod's conclusion that we are headed in a democrat Marxist direction ....

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  • kggOctober 16, 2013 - 12:26 pm

    tom wrote: "This impasse may have started as a dispute over a collapsing health program but it has now taken on the dimensions of a Constitutional crisis." kgg writes: the impasse was started because john boehner is afraid of the tea party. the health program has not collapsed - this lie was created by republicans to frighten gullible folks who hate president obama. the crisis has been generated by people in congress who hate democrats and the president more than they love their country. how are you going to vote today tom? are you going to cling to a lost cause or are you going to step up and represent for the first time, the majority of your constituents?

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  • 1036-FrankOctober 16, 2013 - 12:31 pm

    Article might be better titled, The Death of Outrage. The liberal media covered, as usual, the failures of King Ali-Bummer again. Anything to hide his failures to lead or pass a budget in nearly five years. Also concealing the unemployment numbers, welfare numbers, the 100 million disappeared working American citizens and now the immediate failure of his single biggest fully liberal only supported issue, Bummer-Care which is now doubling the rates for a large majority to subsidize the minority. These stories of people taking the govt. dependence care or other entitlements as a lifestyle is to surrender and be defeated. They should be asking why the insurance rates ever became equal to a mortgage? Might be some hard truths found as far as illegals receiving free care by the millions and insurance manipulated for many years to raise the prices by taking out the free market and by not closing the borders and deporting non-citizens which is the law. I was glad to see veterans, truckers, and bikers at DC to show Ali- Bummer, the radical "teacher" and "community agitator-organizer" some Americans are still left and they aren't going to sit around and see public property like war memorials closed to citizens and opened for illegals welcomed by liberals. They aren't going to sit around and see this country further dismantled one freedom at a time and a nation converted to govt. dependents at low/no incomes because the liberals want a controlled by govt. dependence population. These liberals keep claiming to know what is best for people by trying to force a govt. dependence on them and flooding the country with illegals through open borders for voter recruits with the same, we will give you free govt. programs, and the ones who take it become another liberal voter and entitlement statistic. This is what is wrecking the country and at some point, when other's money runs out for the govt. entitlements, it will implode.

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  • Dink LaneOctober 16, 2013 - 12:56 pm

    McClintock said: "The debt limit exists for a simple reason..".... a simple reason..... because of YOU Mr. McClintock ..... You and your buddy Ted Cruz who met with YOU in that Washington DC basement at a Mexican restaurant..... YES, you were one of those SABOTAGING the US Government for personal gain (CRUZ Admitted it was for fundraising).... YOU and your other 8 buddies COST this government $1.6 Billion in the last three (3) weeks..... You only collected $50,000 in campaign money from District 4 people.... the other $1 Million in campaign contributions (According to OpenSecrets) came and went to other Republicans -- a type of Money Laundering -- political style (Yes, Democrats do it too....but Old Tom has mastered it.)...... I will NEVER vote for you again!

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  • James E.October 16, 2013 - 1:19 pm

    Tom McClintock, the local leader of the Tea Party Taliban. Tom, what you have accomplished in this fiasco is to expose your true mission -- to cripple the government no matter what harm it causes our citizens. Almost impossible in EDC, but I hope you are out of work in 2014. But, no sadness for Tom if he loses, as he will carpetbag to another government position somewhere (I hope far away from EDC).

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  • Dink LaneOctober 16, 2013 - 2:25 pm

    Here you go TOM! ........ The latest COST for your "Shutdown the government" stunt!........"Standard and Poors estimated that the government shutdown has taken $24 billion out of the United States economy and shaved at least 0.6 percent off fourth-quarter growth, the ratings agency said in a news release Wednesday." ......... $24 Billion..... ADDED to the debt.... Yeah.... That's representing your people....

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  • PatriceOctober 16, 2013 - 2:27 pm

    What has the Republicans accomplished in the last 3 weeks? Costing the government over a $ billion, unsuccessful defunding or inhibiting the ACA in any way, ensuring even less trust throughout the world markets, creating insecurity and useless stress on the American people and hurting our recovering economy. Ted Cruz failed, but will fight another day, or will he? Americans continually demonstrate we do not like crazy and will be less tolerant after the last 3 weeks in particular.

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  • PatriceOctober 16, 2013 - 2:33 pm

    Dink Lane, thank you for the Standard and Poors assessment. Outrageous to know this is happening here in the USA?

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  • Dee#1October 16, 2013 - 4:49 pm

    Rep. McClintock, thank you for standing with the conservatives and trying to get some semblance of financial responsibility and the rule of law back into our system. Also, thank you for supporting Ted Cruz in his effort to defund Obamacare. I assure you your loyalty will be rewarded with reelection in 2014.

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  • Dee#1October 16, 2013 - 4:59 pm

    Dink, you have never voted for McClintock. Get a grip

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  • Oh BrotherOctober 16, 2013 - 5:08 pm

    @Dee you sure are a bossy old bat and should hook up with Rod...couple of dummies...

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  • Dee#1October 16, 2013 - 5:26 pm

    Than you Oh Bother. You are so suave.

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  • Dee#1October 16, 2013 - 5:27 pm

    Than should be Thank

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  • EvelynOctober 16, 2013 - 6:35 pm

    Dink/Janet/John/kgg/any Obamacare supporter: Are these outcomes acceptable? 1. The expansion of Medicaid, with increased cost burden for taxpayers. 2. "Sticker shock" as the reality of higher health insurance premiums hits home. 3. Large and small employers are cutting health insurance benefits. 4. The employer-based health insurance policies that remain will have higher out-of-pocket costs for employees. 5. Fewer types of health insurance policies can be offered under Obamacare. 6. Many people cannot keep their doctors. 7. Further destruction of Medicare. 8. Loss of ownership of your medical records. 9. More waivers and exemptions for the political elites and Democrat cronies.

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  • Dee#1October 16, 2013 - 8:48 pm

    Kgg, universal does not give exemptions to big business, unions, Congresspersons and staff but sticks it the ordinary folks. Universal would mean everybody .

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  • kggOctober 16, 2013 - 9:42 pm

    dee wrote: "universal does not give exemptions to big business, unions, Congresspersons and staff but sticks it the ordinary folks. Universal would mean everybody ." kgg writes: the affordable care act means that everyone gets health insurance. no one is exempt. if you have insurance and are happy with it - keep it. obamacare - affordable health care act is for folks who don't have health insurance or who pay very large premiums and want to change. it's a good thing and all the scare tactics of the far right are for naught. it's a law - passed by both houses of congress, vetted by the supreme court and in effect for over a year. get used to it.

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  • EvelynOctober 17, 2013 - 5:27 am

    kgg: You're definitely NOT following along. ACA's promises and rhetoric notwithstanding, many people ALREADY have or are in the process of losing their existing insurance. I am personally acquainted with people who either have lost their insurance or have seen their premiums skyrocket.

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  • Dee#1October 16, 2013 - 10:00 pm

    Kgg, very good. Keep pushing the fantasy. I hope you don't get caught up in reality. I do not believe that I commented or addressed in anyway the validity of the law. Nor did I mention that what is being Implemented is not the law that was passed and ruled on the Supreme Court. That fight is pass. As far as getting us to it,? I'll fight it until it repealed or significantly changed. Kgg get use to it.

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  • rodOctober 16, 2013 - 11:56 pm

    kgg, Sooner or later the ACA will fail from its own ponderous weight. The vast majority of the working class are just now waking up to substantial increases in their monthly premiums and rising deductibles. More employers have stopped health insurance benefits altogether or reduced them significantly. A large percentage of employees have had their hours cut ,meaning less income... TWO BIG VOTING FACTORS. Add to that increased taxation for Medicaid... and less Medicare funding... Then we have the all important Employer mandate coming due just before the midterm elections.... You guessed it... the perfect storm for democrats.... and they did all by themselves. Obamacare did not pass congress as a tax, and will come back to haunt them. It is a first order sham spawned by deception, sprinkled with shiny inclusions like preexisting conditions and no caps, etc, a good thing for some but not an issue for most... the real issue is unsustainable cost... and the economy will take the hit again. Isn't Marxism great!

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  • EvelynOctober 17, 2013 - 5:32 am

    Unfortunately, Rod, you are correct. But I'm beginning to believe that discussion about Obamacare is totally useless, perhaps even counterproductive. Telling people that the healthcare god is and has been lying to them is just too unpalatable. It undermines the very foundations of their political credo and therefore is intolerable.

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 5:41 am

    Would the "lemon law" apply to obamacare?

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 5:43 am

    I can't wait for people to go to the polls next election and find out they have already cast a ballot thanks to the identity thievery that obamacare is going to bring.

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 6:02 am

    obamacare, its abysmal failure, its wrecking ball effect across the population's healthcare options and choices, its massive cost increases and cancelled policies would have any sane person realizing this is not, by any stretch of the imagination what we were sold. But here they are, exposing the fact that they are radical agenda driven leftists immune to facts. There is a another story in the paper about a young woman with cancer, they make my case for me with their comments over there. They are complete frauds and their issue with me is I KNOW it. I've always known it and I treat them as such. It is utter loonacy to continue to support and believe in this massive government takeover of healthcare based on the evidence thus far. Watch them become even more rabid (they always do) as even more evidence is revealed of what useful idiots they truly are. They hide behind terms like compassion and caring, but the truth is they are none of those things.

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  • EvelynOctober 17, 2013 - 6:08 am

    "Obamacare Information Might Be Used By Law Enforcement" - HERE

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 6:10 am

    Evelyn, your 5:32 comment is dangerously close to defining leftists. You are quite centrist and fair minded but you will experience their wrath. With enough interaction with them you may even discover debate and discussion with them is futile. I will continue to expose them for all to see. They are not to be negotiated with, they are to be totally defeated.

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  • EvelynOctober 17, 2013 - 6:16 am

    . . . back to the Debt Crisis: "150 Straight Days: Treasury Says Debt Stood Still at $16,699,396,000,000" (about $25 million below the legal limit) - HERE ********** Reasonable guess: Long before yesterday, the "debt ceiling" raised. Never believe ANY number provided by the government.

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  • EvelynOctober 17, 2013 - 6:23 am

    MCCONNELL-REID DEAL INCLUDES $3 BILLION EARMARK FOR KENTUCKY PROJECT - HERE

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  • EvelynOctober 17, 2013 - 6:27 am

    kgg, THIS is for you (and me): "9 Reasons Why Many Liberals Absolutely Hate Obamacare"

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 6:35 am

    Those who we have mortgaged our future generations to have downgraded our credit rating in spite of the deal to spend even more imaginary money we don't have. http://www.france24.com/en/20131017-chinese-agency-downgrades-us-credit-rating

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 6:48 am

    What separates those who want the government to continue spending money we don't have from those who don't is actually quite simple. It comes down to whether or not they take more from the pot than they contribute. Currently the debt is equivalent to roughly $138,000 per taxpayer. So if you aren't a taxpayer or you receive more than you contribute that number is meaningless to you and those who it has significant meaning for can easily be labeled as a greedy, uncaring, war on women, racist, bigot, corporate tool, Koch brothers, teabagger/hater.

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  • JayOctober 17, 2013 - 7:03 am

    Most of your comments about the Affordable Care Act are just wrong and have a deliberate political twist. So I will assume you’re being paid to disrupt the flow of information which I find distasteful. Having served as a primary care physician for more than 30 years, it pains me to see others struggling under the current broken system. But the more I learn about the ACA, the more convinced I become that it may actually be good for patients, doctors and the entire health care system.

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  • EvelynOctober 17, 2013 - 7:59 am

    Jay: I do not disagree that the current system is broken. How will ACA fix it?

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 7:22 am

    obozocare parody video..... http://blog.heritage.org/2013/10/16/this-obamacare-parody-video-is-going-viral-have-you-watched-it-yet/

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 7:33 am

    So Jay, $634 million and 3 1/2 years later we get a system that on the extremely rare occasion someone gains access they discover what they currently own no longer qualifies and the replacement is more than they can afford with out-of-reach deductibles. You are not defending it based on any reasons other than political. The simple fact is the federal government is not granted the authority under the Constitution to dictate the purchase of healthcare insurance to the FREE citizens of this country. And as Rod has demonstrated numerous times to the deafening sound of crickets it was passed by a method that has all the stench of a dead, rotting, maggot infested skunk. If you are a physician you know perfectly well the issues that need to be addressed in America's healthcare industry and obamacare takes the opposing path to those fixes. Do you actually believe the millions of people who are having their existing policies cancelled is an improvement? Physician heal thyself.

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  • EvelynOctober 17, 2013 - 8:02 am

    cookie: That $634 million was just for the federal website!!!

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 7:37 am

    Jay, since you have obviously read the 11.5 million words in regulations perhaps you can answer my question. Will an individual who ops out of the government mandate and chooses to have their tax confiscated by the IRS instead will they be denied healthcare?

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 7:39 am

    Does anyone else notice this familiar SCRIPT? I should do a search and find the source of this chain letter. "Most of your comments about the Affordable Care Act are just wrong and have a deliberate political twist. So I will assume you’re being paid to disrupt the flow of information which I find distasteful."

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 17, 2013 - 7:52 am

    When my troll disruption check comes in I'm going to Disneyland . . . or Redhawk. . . . oops! It's time to earn my loot by posting Prada is Fifty Shades of Fool . . . also . . . ART BELL was really good last night - The Jimmy Carter UFO and all sorts of good stuff.

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 7:44 am

    I don't believe it is possible for some poster on a tiny local newspaper to "disrupt the flow of information" with more efficiency than the $634million abortion created by health and human services. But nice try anyway.

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  • James E.October 17, 2013 - 7:48 am

    Good morning America (and EDC). Cookie, why do you keep asking that question over and over? We determined that if the answer is no it's the fault of liberals, and if the answer is yes it's the fault of liberals. Cookie's trick question of the week.

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  • Dee#1October 17, 2013 - 7:49 am

    Cookie, I was wondering too about the meme, if you are against the unAffordable Care Act or any leftist idea, you must be paid. I too wonder where it originates. But if you can find where we sign up, let me know. We'll need increase income with the continuing devaluation of the dollar.

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 17, 2013 - 7:56 am

    . . . meme me up, Scotty! . . .

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  • James E.October 17, 2013 - 7:51 am

    Cookie, did you see my comment that if you could get on KFBK, you could be the next Rush Limbaugh. Again, this is a compliment. You could go 3 hours of talk with no problem.

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 7:55 am

    Jay, whether you are a doctor or you just play one on the internet, do you believe obamacare fulfills the Hippocratic Oath of "do no harm"?

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  • James E.October 17, 2013 - 7:56 am

    "A tiny local newspaper." We are indeed small fish in a tiny, tiny pond.

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 8:10 am

    Dee #1, I see a lot of stuff on the net, as do many of us. I wish I had a nickel for every time I have seen the phrase, "disrupt the flow of information" combined with the allegation of being paid. It is, without question, a tactic being deployed by the leftists thru their countless useful idiots in order to turn the conversation away from what an utter disaster this scam to snatch even more freedom and liberty away from Americans has turned into.

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  • Dee#1October 17, 2013 - 3:49 pm

    Cookie, I just found your answer. I have finding it amusing the level of name calling, etc. that is being thrown around but that is what happens when you tell the truth.

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 8:24 am

    James, to my disappointment that no one noticed it, we have some attentive people among us, I created a new word. It was in a posting from yesterday. The word is "educationed". What you get from me is stuff that originates with me. I have intellectual property rights to my thoughts. They come from no one else. The reason Rush has 26 million listeners is he also has his own thoughts which he is a master at communicating. He paints pictures in the minds of people thru words. He see's thru the fog and never takes his eye off what leftism is. Once you understand the self serving single mindedness of leftists the only hurdle that remains is the technique of communicating it. They provide all the material. The ability to write and communicate thoughts is not unusual in my family. I can take no credit for whether or not I do it proficiently.

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 17, 2013 - 8:34 am

    "educationed" - I have added it to my spellcheck dictionary. Thanks, Cookie.

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  • R J CarterOctober 17, 2013 - 8:27 am

    I was just watching Obama's daily speech/smear/bash of the Republican Party and a quote came to mind....The ancient Greek philosopher Socrates once said "TO DO IS TO BE"....Meaning, whatever a person does defines them....If Socrates was correct, then for the last 5 years Obama has proven through lack of compromise that he's not President of the entire United States, merely the President of the Democrat Party....

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  • James E.October 17, 2013 - 8:36 am

    R.J., I'm sure Cookie and Dee would agree. Cannot stand the man, then reject him as only being the President of the Democrats. We Democrats accept him, and we're sorry you don't have a president. Just hang in for 3 more years and you can reject Hillary.

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 8:40 am

    Phil, educationed is what they are. They are certainly NOT educated, they invent nonsense and claim the ability to recite it passes as education. They are conditioned with the stuff that flows from the south end of a north bound bull to the point that it becomes all they know. Educationed. They know an awful lot of stuff that has no basis in fact.

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  • James E.October 17, 2013 - 8:52 am

    Cookie, I don't agree. Rush trades vitriol for money. His base listeners love him because he feeds their prejudices. A great formula for radio success. And, given that Rush knows Tea/Republican truth with a large T why doesn't he run for office?

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  • Oh BrotherOctober 17, 2013 - 8:53 am

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10101022540098607

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  • EvelynOctober 17, 2013 - 9:19 am

    Oh Brother: I did watch your video (HERE). Interesting.

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 8:55 am

    I am curious if these commenters with their whitehouse approved and written script, "disrupting the flow of information for $$$$" are hit and run posters with a quota. They seem to vanish as quickly as they appear. The motive may be to keep the faithful kookaid drinkers inspired and motivated to keep the faux message of obamacare's success off of life support. It may be they learned the message thru the paid high school indoctrination from obama's propaganda ministress, kathleen sibelius. There could be thousands of them banging away on the keyboards in mommy's basement.

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 8:59 am

    James, we never ever ever ever ever ever ever hear any vitriol coming from the left. The left is nothing but vitriol. They not only use if for profit but for something far more sinister an reprehensible, they use it to enslave people to poverty and dependence.

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  • James E.October 17, 2013 - 9:01 am

    Cookie, does the left have a Rush Limbaugh? On the air three hours a day, five days a week?

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  • R J CarterOctober 17, 2013 - 9:01 am

    James.....American politics has always been, and always will be a pendulum, slowly swinging from side to side, left to right, over and over and over, never stopping.....Unfortunately for Hillary and the Left the pendulum never has, and never will, stick to one side or the other for very long...By the year 2016 the pendulum will have swung back to the Right and America back to it's senses.....Added, by the year 2016 the beast will be even harder to look at than she is now...Ick.....

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 9:03 am

    I offer an example of educationed. The networks blamed the repubs in 41 stories for the shutdown. The blamed the dems in 0 (zero) stories for the shutdown. http://washingtonexaminer.com/networks-blamed-shutdown-on-gop-41-stories-0-for-dems/article/2537363

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  • R J CarterOctober 17, 2013 - 9:05 am

    James...Yes, the left does have a Rush Limbaugh on the air three hours a day, five days a week....His name is Barry Soetoro

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  • Phil VeerkampOctober 17, 2013 - 9:10 am

    good one, R.J. - LINK - Barry Soetoro

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  • James E.October 17, 2013 - 9:06 am

    R.J., if the Republicans run Cruz or Paul or any other Tea Party favorite, the game in 2016 is over for the Republicans. And, regarding Hillary's looks, women who lead nations are seldom beauty queens.

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  • EvelynOctober 17, 2013 - 9:08 am

    R.J.: Though not a Limbaugh fan, I'm forced to rush to his defense!

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 9:10 am

    James, 3 hrs./day five days/wk, compared to an ocean of leftist propaganda that has dominated the airwaves and every form of media for 5 decades? That must be that even playing field the left is always sniveling over. James the left has a number of leftist/progressive/socialist/communists radio hosts. They even had their own radio network not including npr and pbs. Just because sane people don't wake up everyday wanting to hear the country they love denigrated so they don't listen to them doesn't mean they aren't out there.

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 9:27 am

    The left's obsession with Fox and Rush is very revealing. Controlling the message is paramount to their agenda. There was a short discussion the other day on here about wisdom. What sort of wisdom is at play with any individual who don't not, or worse yet, refuses to see the dangers of allowing any one group to control the message or means of information gathering. It is almost scary how willfully ignorant the American people have become.

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  • Oh BrotherOctober 17, 2013 - 9:52 am

    @Evelyn- thank you for at least watching the video...I notice no comments from RJ, Cookie, Dee, 1036-Frank et al, so either don't like what they saw or just won't watch anything that doesn't promote their beliefs...James please watch the video..

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  • R J CarterOctober 17, 2013 - 9:58 am

    Oh brother....I have know idea what video you are talking about, but after I get back from breakfast I'll look your past posts and watch it.....

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  • rodOctober 17, 2013 - 10:02 am

    Jay, for the last entire year I have asked every physician, every pharmacist, RN and paper pusher what they thought of obamacare. With one exception, I got a unanimous furrowed brow and shoulder shrug response… and these are the EXPERTS… this is our DELIVERY SYSTEM, these are the pros who read the memos, directions and procedures, not the political side of obamacare… and THEY DON”T LIKE IT. And what about Cookies comment… “do no harm”? Last August a friend of mine went to the Vacaville ER (Northbay Medical Center) by ambulance after she fell down and couldn’t walk. In short, the ER doctor said the x-ray showed, “you sprained your ankle… on top of having rh. Arthritis, give it a couple of weeks and you’ll be fine” It took her FOUR WEEKS to see a Podiatrist, HE said, “… well your foot is broken in two places, why aren’t you wearing a cast or some support?” Jay, do you think the ER Dr “caused some harm”?… you bet your stethoscope! Just wait for the new obamadoctors, the remnants of a once great institution of medicine, now trained to check their IQs… every day… with a rectal thermometer.

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  • Fran DuchampOctober 17, 2013 - 10:08 am

    Oh Brother...what was most interesting to me from your site...was that a decision was made --without the whole. Again all across America---small groups are deciding for a whole--in their best interest...seems to be the new thing. Seeing the government doing it--does not surprise me at all...I was told recently that I was wrong about our "blue" sign up here...that people had three years to give their opinion...my argument--is that the people had to know--in order to make a "choice." Much like your vid. Some knew--most did not...and the choice was made for everyone. Interesting vid. think of all the changes in Pollock Pines/Camino...a few knew--most did not...and they happened anyway. Local government--I have been in rooms full of people saying "no"-- and they were ignored. A few had already decided. Just recently someone put out information to our next town hall meeting--before our flyers went out. The group keeps trying to "take" credit for anything that happens in this space. So once again--your vid--shows what I have been saying all along. A small group of people deciding for a whole is wrong. That is my fight in Pollock.

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  • Fran DuchampOctober 17, 2013 - 10:12 am

    RJ. Oh Brothers link: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10101022540098607

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  • rodOctober 17, 2013 - 10:15 am

    James, COME ON, Gold Meir was hawt! Hillary in sixteen... will look like Chris Christie with a bufont.

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 10:21 am

    RJ, I can save you some time. Watch it and determine for yourself but, it is a video of a change of parliamentary procedure within the House. It is a change that limits who can bring a motion to dispose of any Amendment. It was posted by someone who has no problem with the House and piglosi disposing the rights of free Americans to decide for themselves whether or not to purchase healthcare insurance. I remember the tactics used by the left to pass this catastrophe on America and all the silence from the left. This was about opening up the government before the earth stopped spinning and we were all thrown off into space. Let's not forget the left has their unions to answer to and the costs and debt passed on to future generations doesn't have an entry in their book of compassion.

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  • James E.October 17, 2013 - 10:33 am

    Rod, so the broken foot happened before Obamacare, and this proves Obamacare is bad? I oppose Obamacare because it is a giveaway to the Health Insurance Corporations. Kill it, and move to Medicare for All. Simple and gets rid of those in the middle who provide no service for their massive financial drain on America.

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  • Kirk MacKenzieOctober 17, 2013 - 10:44 am

    The cut taken by for-profit insurance companies is relatively small compared to all the paper work required to with who pays what. Paper pushers, readers, lawyers, accountants, computer systems, and all the support infrastructure that falls under the heading of "necessary" (as opposed to "useful") work. Extreme inefficiency is the problem, and it would all disappear with a single-payer system.

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  • robertdnollOctober 17, 2013 - 10:36 am

    did you learn your communication skills in Juvenal detention or prison?

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  • rodOctober 17, 2013 - 10:46 am

    James, I'm just now getting up after falling off my chair... you just nailed it... Medicare IS the better path to the future... I AGREE with you! But how do we preserve QUALITY?

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 10:48 am

    I have a new grand nephew (2 weeks ago) I think I will give him his $138,000 tax bill and tell him it represents the compassion of the left and don't worry about saving for retirement, those dollars will be needed to pay for his healthcare insurance whether he wants it or not.

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  • James E.October 17, 2013 - 10:49 am

    Robert, given your spelling of juvenal, it appears you never learned communication skills anywhere. Or were you referring to the Roman satirist? I think not.

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  • James E.October 17, 2013 - 10:52 am

    Cookie, I think the child is too young to understand the billing. Best you send it directly to collection. No problem, as he is too young to answer the telephone.

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 10:54 am

    James, there is the secret, he is also to young to object.

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  • James E.October 17, 2013 - 10:56 am

    Rod, I have no medical background to answer the quality question. Well, I was an Army medic when I was a corporal, but that was 55 years ago and all I did was clear the airway, stop bleeding, and attempt to prevent shock. Beyond that, I have no knowledge.

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 10:57 am

    I object on his behalf so I am labeled a hater. The left likes to use the argument of "the least among us" but I find everything they do is an abuse to the least among us.

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 11:03 am

    It only gets funnier. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-exchange-doctors-20131017,0,7017010.story

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 11:07 am

    More common than a registered democrat with an EBT card. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151742900012971&set=a.189889147970.127018.189885532970&type=1&theater

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 11:19 am

    The left has their unions to answer to. So not only do they get back pay for furloughs but they get a raise in January. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/10/17/budget-deal-allows-for-january-federal-pay-raise/

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  • Dee#1October 17, 2013 - 11:20 am

    Happy days are here again------" China’s Dagong credit rating agency on October 17th downgraded its United States sovereign credit rating to A- and maintained its negative outlook on America’s solvency. Dagong warned that despite Washington's last-minute resolution of the debt ceiling deadlock, “The fundamental situation that the debt growth rate significantly outpaces that of fiscal income and gross domestic product remains unchanged.”

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  • James E.October 17, 2013 - 11:26 am

    Dee, and it's all Obama's fault.

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  • Dee#1October 17, 2013 - 11:30 am

    Longhofer, I am glad you agree.

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  • James E.October 17, 2013 - 11:32 am

    Dee, it has to be his fault because if he had agreed to the extortion demands on the first day it wouldn't have happened.

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  • James E.October 17, 2013 - 11:36 am

    Here is my guess on the next negotiation in a few months. The president will agree to some cuts to Social Security and Medicare, but coupled with some tax increases. The Tea/Republicans will scream NO taxes, so the deal is off. Thank you Tea/Republicans.

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  • Dee#1October 17, 2013 - 11:48 am

    Longhofer drivel as always.

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  • VernOctober 17, 2013 - 1:45 pm

    Dee Dee, seems to me you’re just a disrespectful smart mouth who thinks she’s one of the big boys. Not so........

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  • cookie65October 17, 2013 - 11:39 am

    James, obama said the republicans are to blame for America's loss of credibility in the world. The king of the delusional is as delusional as his kookaid guzzling devotees.

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  • James E.October 17, 2013 - 11:44 am

    OK, it has been fun. Back later today.

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  • Dee#1October 17, 2013 - 11:46 am

    Longhofer, try reading this again you might grasp that fiscal condition is out of control. And yes Obama is in complete control of the government, Anything he wants he gets without any compromise . He is the leader. He is responsible. " Dagong warned that despite Washington's last-minute resolution of the debt ceiling deadlock, “The fundamental situation that the debt growth rate significantly outpaces that of fiscal income and gross domestic product remains unchanged."

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  • Oh BrotherOctober 17, 2013 - 12:06 pm

    None of this is just one side or one person's fault..very sad to see us all turning on each other..I personally have to make myself not respond further to any of this unhappiness...I have 6 grandchildren to spend my time and love on, a marriage to enjoy and my volunteer work in the community with our elders who are less fortunate than some others...peace out..

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  • DanielOctober 17, 2013 - 2:20 pm

    Memo to the Tea Party: The Government’s Budget Is Actually Improving

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  • EvelynOctober 17, 2013 - 3:10 pm

    HERE is the link to Daniel's article title. Perhaps Daniel would like to speak to the subject and fill us in with his information about how this relates generally to the health of our economy and the welfare of ordinary citizens.

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  • EvelynOctober 17, 2013 - 3:13 pm

    HERE are some articles that may assist you with your research, Daniel.

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  • DanielOctober 17, 2013 - 8:38 pm

    OK, you win. Unless of course googling "us economy improving" gets way more hits than "us economy deteriorating." Then, using your method of winning arguments (the google query method), you would have to concede DEFEAT. Here, let me save you a click. It's 2.4 million for your query vs. 83.7 million for mine. I just live debating using the google query hits method! It's so much easier than actually... you know... having to do intellectual stuff, like actually reading and critically thinking.

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  • DanielOctober 17, 2013 - 8:46 pm

    Shoot! I meant to bold "DEFEAT" since it's clickable. Way too rusty on my html I guess...

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  • EvelynOctober 18, 2013 - 5:06 am

    Good morning, Daniel. And . . . valid point. But my point simply is that when you post an article title you should provide the link, rather than letting readers assume it was your own original complete thought. It's unsurprising that your search terms provide a greater number of hits. After all, the mainstream means for us to believe that things are going well.

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  • EvelynOctober 18, 2013 - 5:37 am

    For starters, we can stop thinking of ourselves as #1. That position is held by Australia. HERE: 1. Australia 2. Luxembourg 3. Japan 4. Italy 5. Belgium 6. Great Britain 7. United Kingdom 8. Iceland 9. Singapore 10. Switzerland 11. Austria 12. Canada 13. France 14. Norway 15. Finland 16. New Zealand 17. Netherlands 18. Ireland 19. Qatar 20. Spain 21. United Arab Emirates 22. Taiwan 23. Germany 24. Sweden 25. Cyprus 26. Kuwait 27. United States

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  • EvelynOctober 18, 2013 - 5:40 am

    . . . wrong link (above). Instead, THIS.

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  • EvelynOctober 18, 2013 - 5:50 am

    "US Debt Ceiling Deal Is Not Historic, It’s Just More Debt" - HERE: The end of the dollar as a world reserve currency is inevitable. Now the question is: what will be proposed to take its place?

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  • EvelynOctober 19, 2013 - 6:10 am

    China buys JP Morgan's Chase Manhattan Plaza for $725 million - HERE

    Reply | Report abusive comment
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